Transcript
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I’m Joanna Lindenbaum, a coach, ritualist, and all-around transformation nerd who is obsessed with helping clients go deep to create more change and results with their clients.
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I created the Coaching Revolution podcast to share with you coaching skills, tips, and advice, as well as a deeper understanding of human behavior and of yourself.
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so that you can do even better client work and group work, grow your business organically, and know that you’re making a real difference in the world.
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This is about creating a revolution in the transformational industry so that more practitioners feel amazing about what they do and so that more of our clients experience life-changing shifts.
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Let’s get started.
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Welcome back to the podcast.
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If you are a regular with the podcast, I am so glad that you continue to come back and to listen.
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I don’t take it for granted at all.
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It means so much.
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And if you’re new to the podcast, welcome, welcome.
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I hope that you’re gonna love what I’m gonna share with you today.
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So today I wanna do a rewind and I wanna take you back
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the spring of 2010, 16 years ago plus.
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I was hosting 1/2 day workshop in Midtown Manhattan back in the years when I lived in Brooklyn.
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So I was hosting a workshop and it was called Be Seen.
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And some of you listening right now, you know me from the old days, you may have actually been at that workshop in Midtown Manhattan.
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I had booked a beautiful space
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And I was planning for 30 people to come.
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And so I sent emails to my e-mail community promoting the event.
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And I also posted a bunch on Facebook.
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Facebook was the only social media I was on back then, still kind of the same.
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Anyway, I did all of this, sent the emails, posted, and a week before the workshop, I didn’t have 30 people registered.
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I had eight people registered, 8, nowhere near that 30 that I had planned for.
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And I had already committed to this astronomical rental fee.
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Manhattan rental fees, even for small spaces, are so high.
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For a few hours after taking in only 8, taking in that data,
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and that I only had a week left and that I needed a lot more people in the room.
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So for a few hours when I took that in, I just let myself spiral.
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How was I going to fill the room?
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How was I going to recoup what I’d already spent?
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There wouldn’t be enough women to then convert into my actual mastermind program.
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I went straight into what’s wrong with me.
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Why isn’t anyone interested in what I have to share?
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On and on and on, my anxiety went and all of the self-criticism went.
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Now, I want to pause here
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Because, my friend, if you recognize yourself in any of what I just shared, first of all, please know that you’re not alone.
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We all have these kinds of moments, and in some seasons, many of these moments, where the numbers just don’t match what we wanted, what the goals were.
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And when the numbers just don’t match what we know we’re capable of,
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And if you have the tendency to then worry or beat yourself up, please, please remember that there is absolutely no number in your business that reflects your value, your worth, your depth
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And there is absolutely no number in your business that’s going to determine how meaningful and fulfilling your life and work can be.
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Period, end of story.
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So be kind to yourself even when the numbers are low.
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Hold open self-love and possibility always.
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And that is exactly what I did
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back in 2010.
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After the brief stint, brief-ish stint with anxiety and self-criticism, I decided to open up to possibility.
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And when I did that, I remembered something, referrals.
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I hadn’t yet worked on getting referrals for the workshop.
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Now, here’s the thing.
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At that point in my career, I didn’t love asking for referrals.
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I actually slightly cringed at the thought of it.
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I was worried that I would look desperate.
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I was worried that people would think I was being too salesy or too needy or too pushy or too much.
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I was scared of people getting annoyed at me for asking for referrals or possibly even worse, doing the labor and the referral outreach and then hearing crickets, like nobody was even paying attention.
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So I was not thrilled fully about asking for referrals, but I was really committed to filling this workshop.
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not just because of the money, but because I had led this workshop before and I knew how deep the work inside of it was.
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I knew how meaningful the work was, how impactful the work was, and that it was uber powerful for supporting coaches and practitioners to allow themselves to be visible.
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That was the theme because it was called Be Seen.
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And so
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I decided that I was going to reach out to referrals.
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I decided to do it despite my resistance to do it for the sake of the women who could be supported by the workshop.
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And also because it was kind of meta.
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I was teaching a workshop on being seen, right?
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I needed to stretch my own visibility as well.
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And so I got to work and I first
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just worked to get myself excited and much more open to reaching out.
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And then I started calling and emailing current and past clients and colleagues and friends too.
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Anyone who knew me or the power of my work.
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And I asked them to come to the workshop and also to invite their friends.
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And I am not going to pretend that it felt 100% smooth.
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It didn’t.
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There were bumps in the road there.
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At first, especially, I felt a little awkward, all the things.
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But the more that I reached out to people, the easier it got for me and the more on purpose I felt with each referral outreach.
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And the more and more my heart opened to stop feeling so scared
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and to start seeing how each outreach was about connection with people that I really liked and adored.
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And here’s what happened.
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By the day of the workshop, we had 55 people registered.
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I went from 8 to 55 in a week.
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I surpassed my goal of 30 by almost double.
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Okay, so I want to pause here because I want to point out a couple things.
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Number one, if I just decided a week earlier when I had only eight that it was hopeless, that I sucked, that there was nothing that could be done, then I probably would have just canceled the workshop instead of creating the results.
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The other thing is
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I know that, now in 2026, 16 years later, we’re in a little bit of a different time.
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The world is different.
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It’s more distracted now, but it’s not that different than it was in 2010.
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And I really want to emphasize that I brought in 55 people
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without any ads, without any complicated funnels.
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It was just the old-fashioned grassroots way of being in connection with others.
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And at the end of the day, whether it’s 2010 or 2026, the best marketing is always about connection.
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It’s always about relationships.
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Okay, so the story doesn’t even stop there because 12 of those 55 women who came to the Be Seen workshop went on to join my year-long mastermind.
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12 people signed up for a high ticket offer straight from that referral event.
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And
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most of those 12 clients ended up re-signing with me for years, year after year, and many of them referred others, who then referred others, who then referred others.
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So here’s what I really want you to hear.
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Prospects who come to you by way of referrals are always easier to sell to
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than people who are coming in cold, who are just coming in off the internet.
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And that’s because people trust their friends far more than they trust an ad or a funnel.
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That was true in 2010, and it’s even more true now when the coaching and transformational industries are contending with a serious trust recession.
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Here’s the other thing.
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I want you to take in.
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All of that business and all of those sales and all of those ongoing referrals that happened as a result of the referral marketing that I did, it didn’t just magically happen.
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And it didn’t happen only because I asked, only because I made the requests.
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There are specific tools and strategies and things that you want to make sure that you do
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so that when you go to do referral marketing, it actually works and it becomes a powerful, lucrative, dependable part of your coaching business.
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In other words, I don’t want you to think of referral marketing as something that you do every now and again.
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I want you to start to think about your business as a referral business.
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And that’s exactly what I wanna talk about today in our episode.
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I know a lot of you are feeling it right now.
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This economy is different.
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Hold lead generation is slower.
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Visibility feels harder to build.
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It’s less predictable than it used to be.
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You post and you show up, but the return isn’t guaranteed in the way that it once was.
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So the good news is that referrals aren’t dependent on any of that.
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Referrals come, like I said, from the warm, trusting relationships that you’ve already built.
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from the clients that you’ve already served, from the colleagues who already respect your work because you’re doing stellar work, and even from your friends or others who know you, even if they’re not part of your professional world.
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In other words, referrals aren’t about growing your audience from scratch or needing a massive e-mail community or social media following.
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God knows I don’t have a massive social media following.
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I still haven’t fully figured out social media.
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All that being said, most coaches were never actually taught how to do referrals effectively.
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And so they either don’t ask or they ask in a way that feels awkward or transactional or salesy.
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It feels salesy both to them and to the person that they’re asking.
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Or another thing that I see happen is that coaches and practitioners will ask for referrals when they haven’t yet earned the right to ask for referrals.
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So today I want to walk you through the five steps to actually becoming a referral-based business, to becoming what I call a referral magnet.
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And these five steps are exactly what I teach inside of the referral magnet five day marketing bootcamp.
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And that bootcamp is happening in a few weeks.
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And I want to give you a real look of
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the five days and the five steps.
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These are five overarching steps to becoming a referral magnet who consistently generates trusting and aligned leads in your business.
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So let’s jump right in.
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And the first step is to cultivate a referral mindset and soul set.
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So here’s where we start.
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It’s probably not where you might expect.
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I know you might think that we start by jumping in and talking about scripts and systems.
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And yes, we’re going to get to that.
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But first we have to talk about what’s happening inside of you when you even think about asking for a referral.
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Because whether you realize it or not,
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There are very likely inner blocks that you have that are running the show when it comes to referrals.
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Just like there’s inner blocks when I train coaches and therapists and practitioners on deepening your skills with clients.
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We also, we don’t go first to the techniques.
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First we look at you.
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What are your inner blocks, right?
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So when it comes to referrals, maybe for you, it’s the fear of looking needy.
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like I felt back in 2010.
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Or for you, it’s the belief that if my work were good enough, referrals would just happen on their own.
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Or maybe for you, what’s holding you back is an old story about being too much if you directly ask for what you want and need.
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These blocks are real and they’re incredibly common, especially with people that tend to come into my community, people who are deep divers, who are really ethical, who are really on purpose.
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Most of us came into coaching or whatever work that we’re doing because we want to help.
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not because we want to sell.
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We have different beliefs about selling and outreach, right?
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And again, especially if you’re listening to this podcast, I know you, you’re ethical, you’re authentic, and marketing can often just feel like not those things, but it doesn’t have to be that way.
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I promise you cultivating a referral mindset and soul set
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It does take some inner work so that you stop bracing yourself when it comes to referrals, so that you work with the fears that keep you from being fully in and open when you’re working on referrals, so that you start to step into knowing that you are on purpose when you are doing your referrals.
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A referral magnet mindset and soul set is the inner shift where asking for referrals stops feeling needy or salesy or too much and it starts feeling like a natural extension of the trust that you’ve already earned.
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So let me ask you, and be honest with yourself, not
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to beat yourself up.
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These questions are for self-awareness, just so that you, a little bit of a litmus test so you can see where you are with your magnetic mindset and soul set.
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So #1, what happens inside of you when you think about asking for referrals?
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Do you feel hesitation?
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Do you feel like, okay, I’ll do it if you tell me to do it, Joanna, but I’m not gonna like it and I don’t think it’s gonna work.
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Do you feel like asking for referrals are a painful chore that just have to get done, you just have to grin and bear it?
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Are you worried about what people are gonna think or how they’ll judge you or if they’ll think you’re desperate, et cetera, et cetera?
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Are you worried about rejection if you ask for referrals?
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Any of these things can create a mismatched energy between you and the most effective way to show up to ask for referrals.
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And that mismatch energy is going to be felt.
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So even if you are totally terrified,
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I promise you, even if you’re totally terrified about asking for referrals, you can absolutely turn this around.
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And I know this again because I used to be the most terrified of all of all of this.
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And I really want you to turn it around because who you are being when you are asking for referrals, it makes all of the difference in the world.
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So step one of becoming a referral magnet, again, is cultivating a referral magnet mindset and soul set.
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And on the very first day of referral magnet, this is where we begin.
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We do deep, deep work, cognitive work, somatic work, archetypal work, shadow work,
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into those inner blocks that you have so that you can start to make the inner shifts towards being more magnetic for referrals.
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Because again, when the inner pieces shift, everything downstream gets so much easier.
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This is something I can promise you.
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all of your marketing, not just your referral marketing, but all of it, benefits 100 times over when you work on your fears, when you work on your shadows, when you work on your beliefs, and then internally you become more magnetic.
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Okay, so let’s talk about step 2 in becoming magnetic.
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Once your inner yes is in place, right, that’s step one, then we move on to the actual ask.
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So step two is create referral requests that actually activate people.
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And this is another place to pay extra special attention to because how you ask for referrals, what
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you say, how you describe your work, all of this matters enormously.
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And most of us were just never taught how to ask.
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We obviously weren’t taught this in school, but we also weren’t taught this in most of the business coaching programs that we’ve been in, at least not how to do referrals really effectively.
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And that’s because effective referral marketing and requests are basically like the 180 degree opposite of the way most marketing is being taught right now.
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If referral requests sound markety at all, they’re not going to work.
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If they don’t sound 110% authentically like you,
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the referral requests aren’t gonna work.
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If they aren’t completely relational, they’re not gonna work.
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And of course, if you’re unsure of how to talk about your message, of how to articulate who you help, if you don’t know how to do this and do it succinctly, then referral marketing is gonna become
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a bit harder, a lot harder.
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So that’s why on day two and part of day three of the referral magnet boot camp, I walk you step by step exactly on how to create your personalized, authentic, effective referral outreach.
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And when I say referral outreach, by the way, it might be something that you send written like over e-mail or text or messenger.
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Or your referral outreach might be speaking voice to voice, like leaving a voice message.
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One of my favorite ways to invite in referrals is actually through voice messages versus copy.
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because then you can hear the sound of my voice.
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You can hear the love in my voice.
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You’ll feel more connected to me immediately.
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It’s less formal.
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It’s more relational, right?
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So anyway, in Referral Magnet, when we go over this and we go deep, deep into this, you not only get a whole bunch of my own referral templates, both written copy and for voice messages,
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so that you have a guide and you don’t have to start from scratch with a blank screen.
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But inside of the boot camp, I also help you find your authentic voice and articulate your message and your ideal client and exactly what you want to say in these referral requests.
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The idea is that between the inner work that we do on day one to become more magnetic and the writing work that we do on days two and three so that you have your outreach ready to go, then by the end of the week, you’ll have already easily made at least 10 effective referral requests.
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And most of the people who really participate in Referral Magnet and really commit
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they end up doing way more outreach than just 10.
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And they sometimes actually even start getting referrals before our five days are done, which is so cool.
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Okay, so that brings us to step three of the referral magnet process.
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And this is another really crucial step.
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if you want to consistently be activating more referrals in your business.
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The keyword there is consistent because becoming a referral magnet isn’t a once and done.
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You ideally want to be getting referrals all year round so that you never have to scramble for new clients.
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And in order to do this,
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You need a system in place.
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And I call this your keep in touch referral system.
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So this is step three, your keep in touch referral system.
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You want to craft it.
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The short explanation of the keep in touch system is this.
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it’s really hard to activate referrals from people that you haven’t been in touch with lately.
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And that’s because of what I said earlier.
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Marketing is the best marketing is relational.
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It is always, always about relationships.
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And if you haven’t been in touch with someone for a really long time and then out of nowhere you get in touch, just ask for a referral,
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it’s going to feel a little weird, right?
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Probably for you.
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And it might also feel weird for the person that you reach out to.
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Now, I say it might feel weird for the person that you reach out to because there are absolutely for sure 100% ways to reach out to someone who you haven’t been in touch with for a long time.
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and still have it be warm and have it so that they are poised to be ready to help you and send referrals.
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You can do this.
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You do need some specific words and ways of asking when it’s been a little cold.
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And I share all of that inside of Referral Magnet.
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But that being said, the most ideal way to activate referrals
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is when you’ve been at least in semi-regular touch with someone.
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But how do you stay in touch with people effectively in today’s world when we’re all so busy with a million and one things on the to-do list?
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And how do you keep in touch regularly in a way that doesn’t just feel transactional, like you’re doing it to keep in touch so that you can ask for something later?
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So this is what the keep in touch system is all about.
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And it’s not complicated.
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I promise you that.
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But it is something that you’re going to want to build right away so that after the boot camp, the referrals don’t fizzle out so that you actually have a system that you can keep on going back to over and over and over again in an easy way throughout the year so that you can consistently generate those referrals.
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So inside of Referral Magnet, I show you exactly how to set up the system, how to upkeep the system so that it doesn’t fizzle out, and so that you have way more control over your referral pipeline and you can generate more referrals in the months that you need them.
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Okay, so far we’ve covered 3 pieces, 3 steps, whatever you want to call them, components.
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The first is cultivating that referral mindset and soul set.
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The second is creating referral requests that actually activate people to send you referrals.
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And the third step that we spoke about so far is to craft and uphold those keep in touch systems.
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There’s 2 more steps that I have found to be part of the secret sauce of consistent referrals.
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So step 4 is to craft what I call profitable referral events.
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So okay, this is an advanced step.
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It’s kind of an optional one.
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You don’t have to do this one, but it is one that I highly recommend.
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And it just so happens to be one of my favorite business building strategies.
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So.
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Traditionally, we think of referral generation in only one way.
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Reach out to the people that and ask them to directly send people to you for sales conversations about working together.
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And I love this strategy.
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It’s effective and it’s what we cover in days two and three of Referral Magnet.
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We want to do this kind of outreach for sure.
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But that’s not the only way to generate referrals when you are really creating a referral-based business with consistent leads coming your way.
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The other part of the referral strategy is with events.
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So what do I mean by events?
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A referral event can be a workshop, a circle,
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a ritual, an open house, a demo, on and on and on.
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The idea is that it’s an experience, a live experience can be online live or in-person live where your people can come together and also bring their referrals, bring their people to connect with you and your work in real time
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and in community.
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So it’s one thing for someone to refer you and say, hey, check out Joanna, she’s amazing or I’m going to connect you to or whatever it is.
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But it’s a completely other thing when someone that you’ve asked for a referral comes to an event with their friend.
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Now they’re doing it together and it becomes really powerful.
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This is exactly what I did back in 2010 with that Be Seen workshop.
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And these profitable referral events, they are incredible.
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Inside of them, you give a ton of real value.
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You’re doing your work, you’re being of service, you’re giving value, you’re creating
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opportunities for breakthroughs and transformation and learning.
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At these referral events, people are getting to experience your work directly, not second hand, but they get to experience you and your work and the power of it.
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And then from that place of genuine value that you’ve given, you invite them in.
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So there is obviously an art and a science to being able to craft an effective referral event to both inviting people in, filling the event, as well as exactly what to do during the referral event and also after the referral event so that you get sales calls on your calendar.
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And that’s what day four of Referral Magnet is dedicated to.
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We’re gonna talk about referral events.
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Every time I share this content, you can just feel the excitement and the creativity that gets activated in the room.
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Once I lay it out a bit more, it feels really exciting to host an event like this.
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And I’ll share, it definitely does take a little bit of work to organize a referral event.
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There are details and there are nuances and there are things to prepare for, sure.
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But I can tell you both from my experience in my own business,
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as well as from so many of my sacred depth students where I’ve held their hand step by step to create their referral events.
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It is so worth it to do something like this.
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These events, you’re not going to do them every day, right?
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It’s not like a all the time thing because it takes work.
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But these events,
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They generate clients and not just from referrals, but from the direct connections that you invite in.
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These referral events, they also help you put out a ton of goodness into the world, a ton of goodwill into the world.
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They give you the opportunity to create community and make impact and also to become more known for your expertise.
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They are just amazingness all around.
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Okay, so I have saved the most important piece of becoming a referral magnet, of creating a business that generates consistent referrals.
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I’ve saved the most important piece
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for last.
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And this one might sound almost too simple to include, but I’m including it because it really is foundational.
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It really is the lever that makes all of the other levers we’ve been talking about today work.
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And this piece is, in its simplest terms, be amazing at what you do in your one-on-one work, in your group work, and really be extraordinary at co-creating transformation and results with your clients.
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The better you are at co-creating real results and transformation with your clients, the more skilled you are at holding deep space with your clients and your groups, at creating an experience that is sacred and transformative
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then the more poised you are to receive referrals from the people who are genuinely, wholeheartedly happy with the work that you’ve done together.
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Referrals aren’t just a marketing tactic.
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They are in part a byproduct of the depth and the quality
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of your actual work, of what your clients think and feel about you and the experience that they’ve had with you and the quality of that experience.
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This is absolutely the most key ingredient of being able to be a referral magnet.
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This is a big piece of why my business
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Even after 25 years, in large part still runs on referrals.
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My clients and my students are always so willing to sing my praises to anyone who will listen.
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They’re not worried that they’re going to make a bad recommendation, that people are going to waste their money when they recommend me.
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They know that they’re doing their people a favor when they steer people towards sacred depths and in my direction.
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The importance of getting better and better at your craft, at creating better and better experiences for your clients.
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This is true whether you’re brand new to working with clients or whether you’ve been coaching or working with clients for decades and decades.
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There’s always a next level of mastery that’s available to you.
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And if you’re anything like me, you’re a lifelong learner.
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One of your top priorities is to become better and better at better at what you do.
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And becoming more extraordinary, especially if you’re already a seasoned practitioner,
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It’s not just about learning more and more techniques.
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It’s about something related to that, but actually kind of really different.
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And we’re going to dive into that in day five of Referral Magnet.
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Okay, so when you put all of these five components together, the inner mindset and soul set,
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the actual referral request itself, the keep in touch system, the referral events, and then growing your own mastery so that you become more and more effective at supporting your clients.
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This is when referrals start to become way more inevitable.
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They become something that you can actually create on purpose, consistently,
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And one of the best parts of it, like I mentioned earlier, is that when you are doing these five steps, these five components, you get to have marketing that is relational, that is intimate, that is authentic.
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And then you can spend less time on some of the other complicated stuff.
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What I want for you, my friend, is to have this kind of referral magnet shift for yourself.
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Because I remember exactly what it felt like on the other side of that terrifying week in 2010 when I finally opened myself up to stepping fully in to being.
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a referral magnet when I showed myself that I didn’t have to white knuckle my way through visibility and through all of the complicated funnels and hoops to fill a room.
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So I want that for you as well.
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And if you want that for you, first of all, I hope that you were taking notes during this episode and
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if you can just feel deep down that you can go better and deeper with activating referrals, then please consider joining us for Referral Magnet.
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That’s exactly what these five days were built for.
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I will
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drop the link in the show notes and you can check it out.
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There are two tiers.
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There’s an essentials tier and then there’s a VIP tier where you get also just a private session.
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I shouldn’t say just, you get a private session with me where we go over your copy and your outreach and your messaging.
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It’s really, really powerful.
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Anyway,
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I’ll drop that for you.
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And as always, I’m grateful that you’re here learning and growing along with me.
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I want you to know straight from my heart to yours that I believe that your work deserves to be known by more of the right people and that you can make that happen and you don’t have to do it alone.
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If you loved this episode, please give us a great review or five stars.
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And in the spirit of referrals, please send it along to anyone who you think might benefit from it.
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I’ll see you next time.
