Transcript
00:00:05 Joanna Lindenbaum
I’m Joanna Lindenbaum, a coach, ritualist, and all-around transformation nerd who is obsessed with helping clients go deep to create more change and results with their clients.
00:00:19 Joanna Lindenbaum
I created the Coaching Revolution Podcast to share with you coaching skills, tips, and advice, as well as a deeper understanding of human behavior and of yourself.
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so that you can do even better client work and group work, grow your business organically, and know that you’re making a real difference in the world.
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This is about creating a revolution in the transformational industry so that more practitioners feel amazing about what they do, and so that more of our clients experience life-changing shifts.
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Let’s get started.
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Welcome back to the podcast.
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This is Joanna Lindenbaum, and I’m so, happy to be here with you for today’s episode for a few reasons.
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So first of all, because the topic that we’re going to be discussing today is near and dear to my heart.
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I mean, every topic that we discuss on the podcast is near and dear to my heart, but I think today’s is even more special.
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We’re going to be talking about the importance of client care inside of your business, why it’s so important, and how client care isn’t just a set of scheduling templates or welcome packet templates for clients, and instead how it is a major component that supports your clients to be more successful in all of the goals, in all of the reasons why they hired you in the 1st place.
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and also how client care, when done exceptionally, can also be a big factor in helping you grow your business.
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We’re going to get into some nitty-gritties on how to put together really exceptional client care inside of your business as well.
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And when I say client care,
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I mean all of the ways that you are communicating with and helping your clients and students with the logistics of your offerings and your programming.
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For example, how you onboard your clients, how you respond to client questions or concerns about logistics throughout a program.
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how you track clients and students throughout a program, et cetera, et cetera.
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How you do this really matters and it makes all the difference sometimes between clients who are really engaged inside of your offerings in your containers versus clients who really get lost or disengaged.
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Inside of today’s episode, we’re also going to be talking about what it means to be a high touch business, what it looks like, what impact it has, and some of the ways that we use high touch inside of our programming, especially inside of sacred depths.
00:03:24 Joanna Lindenbaum
And when I say high touch, what I mean is
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What you’re doing inside of your offerings and your programming to ensure that no matter how many people are in your program, they feel seen and heard and held.
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What are you doing inside of your offerings to ensure that people don’t get lost and drop off?
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Or that their needs are being met?
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So
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high touch makes me, and being high touch inside of our businesses and inside of our programming, it makes me think of that old sitcom from the 1980s, Cheers.
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And for the younger people listening to the podcast who might not know the show, it’s about a bar.
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It’s set in Boston, I think.
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And the show is really about the relationships between the staff of the bar and also the regulars at
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the bar.
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Anyway, theme songs for sitcoms were really big back in the 80s.
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And I know so many theme songs from that era by heart.
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But I always remember the theme song from Cheers.
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One of the lines was, you want to go where everybody knows your name.
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And I really feel that way about our coaching businesses as well.
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People want to be where everybody knows their name.
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So
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If you’re not already high touch in your business, my hope is that by the end of this episode, you’re going to be inspired to consider adding some high touch elements in, because it’s so powerful.
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And we’re looking at all of this client care and high touch, because as you know, if you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, or if you’ve been inside my programs,
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A big part of the mission is to support you not only to become a more exceptional coach or practitioner, to support you to go deeper with your clients, become even more effective at helping them reach their goals and co-creating transformation.
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But my mission is also to help you grow your business and your reputation.
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and increase your client roster through your excellent client work, as well as ethical and marketing, business and marketing strategies.
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And this conversation around client care and being high touch, it sits at the intersection of all of it.
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And with so many of the topics that we dive into here on the podcast, this could easily be a five-day retreat,
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five week program or more, but because there’s so much that goes into client care and being high touch.
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And of course, inside of my training programs, especially Sacred Depths, we do a lot of detailed training on client care and high touch.
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And also I model it and the team models it.
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And that’s often one of the best ways to learn.
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And I will say this, inside of my business, we do client care and high touch so freaking well.
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We are exceptional, exceptional at it as a team.
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And it’s something that also when my business was just me without a team,
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I was incredibly dedicated to it as well.
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So you don’t need a team in order to be exceptional at client care, in order to be high touch.
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And I am so proud of all of the ways that we connect with and support and communicate with clients and have relationships with our clients and also the ways that we have relationships with folks in our newsletter community and this podcast community.
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And I’m so grateful to Caitlin and Lara and Inbal on the team, because it really is a team effort.
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They are so utterly with me in my dedication to this, and they’re so good at it.
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And this in part is what allows the business to stand out as care.
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caring and supportive and impactful.
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We’re really known for this.
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And we get emails from happy clients about not just their results, but also client care regularly.
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We get emails like multiple times a week about this.
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And I have so much pride that there’s so much gratitude and appreciation for us on this.
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The other reason why I am really excited about today’s episode is that it is the first time that I have invited someone on the episode with me.
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Of course, I’ve blathered about for the first few minutes because I always have so many words.
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But the heart of this episode is actually a conversation with Caitlin Fitzgordon, who is on the team, many of you
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who have been through our programs, everyone who’ve been through our programs knows Caitlin.
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She is our beloved client care coordinator.
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She is our program manager, and she is here with me today to share about how we do client care and how we do high touch.
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So Caitlin, I’m so excited that you’re here on the podcast.
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I’ve been waiting for this conversation.
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to happen for a long time.
00:09:17 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I’m so thrilled as well and so happy to be here.
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And before we dive in, I wanted to share a few things.
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So first of all, I didn’t mention earlier, I meant to, but not only are you a client care coordinator and our program manager, but you are a coach, you’re a certified Sacred Depths coach.
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And also, even before becoming a coach, you were a yoga instructor and a childbirth educator.
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So you come with so much experience and wisdom.
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I think you’re pulling all the time for the client care role from everything, everything that you’ve done before.
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And
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We’ll talk more about this later, but I think one of the things that makes you so suited so well for coaching and client care and program management is that you’re great with people.
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You need to be great with people.
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But before even all of that, I thought it would be fun, especially for the people that are inside of our programs, but of course for the whole podcast community, I wanted to share how we met because
00:10:38 Joanna Lindenbaum
We’ve known each other for a really, really long time.
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I don’t even know exactly how many years, but it’s over 20 because Ida is 20.
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It’s all right.
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And we met when you were pregnant with Ida.
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It was back when we were both looking, working, working and living in Brooklyn.
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It was the early 2000s.
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And
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I was living in Carroll Gardens.
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I think you were too, because I used to go to your yoga studio.
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You and Jonathan, your husband had, I think, one of the best yoga studios in town.
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And I loved to go.
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And it was on the 1st floor of a walk-up.
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And I remember one day, a few months into
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going to classes at the studio that I was leaving or I was coming one day.
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And I saw this woman with a big pregnant belly walking, I think two dogs, two dogs.
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And maybe it was just one.
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And I was like, who?
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It was two?
00:11:48 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
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And I was like, who is that woman?
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I want to know her.
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Is that Jonathan’s wife?
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I’m not sure.
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And
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And I just, I was like determined to get to know who you were.
00:12:04 Joanna Lindenbaum
Do you remember that?
00:12:06 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I love it.
00:12:06 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I remember Jonathan telling me about you because I think you had taken his class a few times.
00:12:12 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And he was like, I think you need to meet Joanna.
00:12:15 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So he was right.
00:12:19 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, so we met.
00:12:21 Joanna Lindenbaum
So what year is that you were pregnant with Ida?
00:12:25 Caitlin Fitzgordon
2025.
00:12:27 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Sorry, 2005.
00:12:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
2005.
00:12:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
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So 20 years ago.
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And I don’t know if you remember this, we met and you stepped into eventually into Journey Yourself, which was a year-long women’s empowerment group.
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that I was running with Dawn, but we also became friends and colleagues right away.
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And we did a workshop or two at the yoga studio back then, which I think was cutting edge for the time, where we combined yoga with coaching.
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So I remember like one of our workshops, we did
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you taught inversions, but then I did coaching on what it means to turn your world upside down and look at things from a different perspective.
00:13:18 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yes.
00:13:20 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So great, because that’s one of the things I love about inversions is that like confronting your fear and also like, yeah, turning your perspective around.
00:13:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
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So we have a long history.
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We’ve been together for a long time.
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And
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I think you’ve been on the team for almost 10 years now.
00:13:38 Joanna Lindenbaum
I think it’s 10.
00:13:39 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah.
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Wow.
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It’s amazing.
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So, okay, I’m so excited.
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You are the perfect person to have this conversation with today on client care and high touch because you are so much
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in this with me and also innovating things.
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And really, you’re like the queen of client care.
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I think of you as the queen of client care inside of our programs.
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So where I want to start with is actually from an kind of an inner level, because I think that
00:14:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
Exceptional client care starts internally, meaning like inside of me, inside of you, inside of everybody on the team with how much we care about what we’re doing here at Applied Depth, with how much we care about what we’re trying to accomplish through our offerings and through our programming and through our mission.
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What I mean by that is that
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you need to really care about what you are working to create inside of your business in order to even start being passionate about client care.
00:15:03 Joanna Lindenbaum
So I wanted to start by asking you, Caitlin, what do you love about our mission or what are your favorite parts about what we’re really trying to accomplish at Applied Depth as a team and a business?
00:15:19 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, that’s such a great question because
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You know, when I think about the impact that this company that you have had on the number of people that have gone through programs with you, and that each of their missions get supported by your mission of transformation, of supporting people in making positive change.
00:15:41 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And the ripple effect of that and the thousands of people that, you know, we’ve gotten to know that have then taken their work out into the world and impacted their people.
00:15:50 Caitlin Fitzgordon
It’s so inspiring and it like moves me to tears when I think about it when I’m in conversation with someone.
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I just got chills as you were speaking because it’s like, it’s something also that I know, but it, to just keep on remembering it.
00:16:05 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s so true.
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Just seeing the personal transformation and then the transformation in our people as
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practitioners, and then the lives that they go on to change.
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I mean, it’s definitely one of the reasons to wake up every morning.
00:16:22 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Absolutely.
00:16:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
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So there’s the this piece of kind of really believing in what we’re doing and what we’re trying to do that I think inspires client care.
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And then I think the other inner piece is that in order to do really exceptional client care, you kind of have to really care about your clients.
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It’s inherent in the name.
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And you have to really be a people person and really want to know who your clients are and
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want to know, you really need to care about the relationships that you have with clients.
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It’s so essential to client care.
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I always tell people when they’re hiring team, when you’re hiring a client care coordinator, it’s not just about the organization and all of that, but it’s about the personality.
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Is this someone that is really good with people?
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Is this someone who really loves to interact with people?
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And is this someone who is going to love your clients, like really appreciate and respect them and want to get to know them?
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And I know I can say with just pride and happiness that as a team, we really adore and love our clients and students.
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And I think they feel it deeply.
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And so I wanted to just ask you, Caitlin, because I think we have the best clients in the world.
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What are some of the things that you love most about our students and our clients?
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And what’s your perspective about relationships with clients?
00:18:19 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, I love that you attract the best people.
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And not in like, we’re better than you way, but like,
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they’re just people that I want to know.
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And they’re people that I could be friends with and have relationships with.
00:18:31 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And they’re people who are really thoughtful, who care about humanity, and who care about their mission to create positive change in the world.
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And so I admire them.
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I’m inspired by them.
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I learn from them all the time.
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And because I am a people person, I like to connect.
00:18:53 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I like having those relationships.
00:18:55 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so, I just, I feel, as I said, inspired by the people that I have, gotten to come in contact through you and to continue to have relationships with over the years.
00:19:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, it’s so true.
00:19:09 Joanna Lindenbaum
I mean, we really, that’s the other thing is we continue to have those relationships.
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Clients stay with us for years, but then we keep in touch.
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They send us updates.
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We kind of get to see what happens with their lives and their work.
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It amazes me how much in contact we are with people.
00:19:32 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I agree with you so much.
00:19:33 Joanna Lindenbaum
You know, you said that
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You learn so much from our clients and they inspire you.
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And I feel the same exact way.
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I really do.
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And part of it is, yeah, because I also just really adore who our clients are.
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They are transformation nerds like we are.
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They’re committed to being ethical like we are.
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And they’re just wise.
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And
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interesting and fun.
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So.
00:20:08 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And they all have their own background and their own, you talked about how I draw from yoga and childbirth ed and, being a birth worker and, being a parent and they each have their unique stories, their unique backgrounds.
00:20:22 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And from all of that, they’re like developing and sharing their brilliance.
00:20:25 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And it’s beautiful to witness.
00:20:27 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, agreed.
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Agreed.
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It is.
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It’s so it’s so many different experiences and so many
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So many experiences that are so important.
00:20:38 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah.
00:20:42 Joanna Lindenbaum
So all of this leads both the really caring about the mission and then the really caring about clients and relationships.
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I think all of this is the foundation of really good client care and high-touch care.
00:21:04 Joanna Lindenbaum
So let’s talk a little bit about high touch first, because we do a lot by way of high touch.
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We have, I think, a lot of different– we’ve worked really carefully as a team to put a lot of high touch mechanisms inside of our programming so that even when we have more people in a program,
00:21:33 Joanna Lindenbaum
there are so many ways and so many opportunities for people to feel seen and heard, for people to get individual support in terms of how can they move through the program with the most success.
00:21:54 Joanna Lindenbaum
And we have things like Get It Done Days, and we have things like small client
00:22:04 Joanna Lindenbaum
small client groups and conversations and so much more.
00:22:09 Joanna Lindenbaum
And so first, I think just the place where I want to start with this is that I always tell people in our programs that no matter how many people are in the program, if they want to get to know me, I’m here for it.
00:22:32 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I’m available and I make myself available.
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I let people know this from the very first day of class.
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Like if you want my support, I am here for you and I want you to reach out.
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And this is how to reach out.
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And
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people are often taken aback by that, especially like in a bigger coaching company that the person, I don’t know what’s my role, the CEO, whatever it is, who’s teaching is like, you have access to me and I want you to access me and I want to support you.
00:23:12 Joanna Lindenbaum
But I think that for some people, that makes so much of a difference.
00:23:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
I’ll also, I’m also known to do a little bit of individual outreach to people inside of programming.
00:23:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
If I haven’t heard from someone in a little bit, I might send them a note as well.
00:23:37 Joanna Lindenbaum
And Caitlin, you do a lot of this too.
00:23:40 Joanna Lindenbaum
So talk about
00:23:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
how we stay connected to our clients individually in programs, even if we’ve got a lot of people in a program and how we track clients through their programs.
00:23:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
Share a little bit about what we do.
00:23:59 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So we have our, you know, our roster of any program and one of my
00:24:05 Caitlin Fitzgordon
main responsibilities is to check in with people.
00:24:10 Caitlin Fitzgordon
You and I will talk about what the appropriate timing is, but then I’ll go ahead and within a month of sacred up starting, I will reach out to everyone in the program to check in and offer to hop on a call with them.
00:24:22 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And in that case, I actually call them up directly.
00:24:27 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And most of the time, I’ll just leave a message.
00:24:29 Caitlin Fitzgordon
But I want them to hear my voice.
00:24:33 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And many people take me up on having the conversation, even if it’s just like, everything’s great.
00:24:39 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Having that voice to voice conversation, giving them space to feel seen and heard is really important.
00:24:48 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so that’s a big part of it.
00:24:50 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And then in this current curriculum lab, where it is a larger group, just this week reached out to everyone to check in and see if they need anything.
00:25:02 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So that’s a big part of my regular outreach of people in programs.
00:25:08 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, I love that we do this.
00:25:10 Joanna Lindenbaum
I feel, like I said, I just feel like it makes such a difference reaching out to people, seeing how they’re doing.
00:25:16 Joanna Lindenbaum
And we do this a couple of times throughout the program, depending on how long the program is.
00:25:28 Joanna Lindenbaum
What do,
00:25:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
What have you noticed people appreciate about this?
00:25:32 Joanna Lindenbaum
Or how is this supportive?
00:25:34 Joanna Lindenbaum
Just this reaching out to people individually, hopping on the phone if they need something.
00:25:41 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Well, it’s interesting because I feel like, you know, it’s not just a check-in, how’s it going?
00:25:46 Caitlin Fitzgordon
You know, I very specifically will say, how can I help you get the most out of this experience?
00:25:51 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Even if someone is doing fine, it prompts them to think about like, oh, is there anything that I need that will help enhance this experience?
00:26:02 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I feel like that’s a big part of it, that it allows people to feel taken care of and held, even in a group where there are people from all over the world connecting with you on Zoom.
00:26:15 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I think you have a remarkable ability to create that container where people feel held.
00:26:21 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And part of it is that the outside of the actual training calls with you, that they’re being reached out to by, you know, me and client care.
00:26:29 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So there’s like another layer of support, another layer of being held while they’re in it.
00:26:37 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, agreed.
00:26:39 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I was thinking about when you were just saying you
00:26:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
Oftentimes, sometimes I think you’ll get on the phone and someone will have missed a few calls.
00:26:52 Joanna Lindenbaum
And because life is busy, I always say I’m the only person that makes all of the calls live.
00:26:59 Joanna Lindenbaum
And
00:27:00 Joanna Lindenbaum
you’ll help them figure out how to catch up or create a plan for catching up or just to kind of like regulate the nervous system.
00:27:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
Like it’s okay.
00:27:08 Joanna Lindenbaum
You can, you know, like you’re in it.
00:27:11 Joanna Lindenbaum
Let’s help you get what you need here.
00:27:16 Joanna Lindenbaum
And then you were saying, you know,
00:27:19 Joanna Lindenbaum
Much of the time you get on the phone and people are like, it’s great.
00:27:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
But through the conversation, even though I may have mentioned at the beginning,
00:27:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
of a program and we sent in writing, here are some bonus things, here are some supplemental things, et cetera, et cetera.
00:27:37 Joanna Lindenbaum
You have to kind of like tell people over and over again so that they know.
00:27:42 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I know a lot of times in those conversations that you have, Caitlin, someone will be like, oh, I really wish there was a resource for X.
00:27:51 Joanna Lindenbaum
And you’ll be like, actually, it’s in the member center.
00:27:55 Joanna Lindenbaum
That’s an extra thing.
00:27:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
And so they get those layers that you were talking about,
00:28:00 Joanna Lindenbaum
get to those extra layers inside of a program through the high touch.
00:28:09 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:10 Joanna Lindenbaum
You and I also, and sometimes along with In Ball 2, we’ll regularly together go through the roster of people in a program, and we’ll kind of talk about each person and what we see for them.
00:28:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
what we might do extra to help them or support them.
00:28:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
And also we inevitably always end up talking about how incredible each person is too.
00:28:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
But I wanted to just bring this forward because I think this is another way that we are tracking our clients is not only checking in with them,
00:28:54 Joanna Lindenbaum
But also checking in with ourselves in terms of how is this person doing?
00:29:01 Joanna Lindenbaum
What do I see for them?
00:29:02 Joanna Lindenbaum
What do I sense they need?
00:29:06 Caitlin Fitzgordon
For sure, and even if someone is going through a life event and they share it with me, I’ll make sure that you’re aware, this happened with this person, you might want to reach out.
00:29:16 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So there is a constant communication around the people that are in the programs.
00:29:22 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, yeah, I’m really glad you’re mentioning that.
00:29:25 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s true because we, not everyone, but a lot of people, they do share with us the beauty, the joy, all of it, and then the harder things.
00:29:36 Joanna Lindenbaum
And it is a component of client care that just to let them know, I know this is happening for you, and I’m thinking about you, and I’m here.
00:29:50 Joanna Lindenbaum
if you need anything.
00:29:52 Joanna Lindenbaum
Or don’t worry, take that time to be with the loved one that’s sick.
00:29:57 Joanna Lindenbaum
We’ll help you figure out how to get caught up when you’re ready to be caught up.
00:30:04 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, people really appreciate that.
00:30:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, I feel that too.
00:30:09 Joanna Lindenbaum
They really, they feel the care.
00:30:12 Joanna Lindenbaum
And it helps, it helps them to feel more ownership
00:30:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
inside of the program.
00:30:21 Joanna Lindenbaum
Like, this is my place.
00:30:24 Joanna Lindenbaum
This is my community.
00:30:26 Joanna Lindenbaum
I have a sacred space in this community.
00:30:31 Joanna Lindenbaum
For sure.
00:30:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
So another part of High Touch, and another piece also that I feel really proud that we do so well,
00:30:48 Joanna Lindenbaum
is that in addition to everything we kind of market and advertise on our sales pages in terms of what people get and bonuses, we also add lots of extra bonus trainings or extra Q&A time or meet and greets.
00:31:12 Joanna Lindenbaum
Basically, both you and I are tracking
00:31:18 Joanna Lindenbaum
where our students and clients are in real time and looking to see what more does this particular group need.
00:31:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
so that they can achieve their goals.
00:31:31 Joanna Lindenbaum
And if we can make it happen, we create it for them, or we provide the space or the support for them.
00:31:41 Joanna Lindenbaum
So it’s not just like, here is this canned version of what this program is supposed to be.
00:31:46 Joanna Lindenbaum
And it’s just the same thing for every cohort, but instead, who are the real people inside of any given cohort, and what do they need?
00:31:59 Joanna Lindenbaum
So Caitlin, you’re often the mastermind behind a lot of this.
00:32:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
Can you share a couple of examples of times that we have kind of seen a need inside of a particular cohort and then made it happen?
00:32:20 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah.
00:32:22 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Even just recently, someone was asking about, how do I get my first clients?
00:32:27 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And all of that information is in that we have a member center with bonus trainings that people can dive into.
00:32:36 Caitlin Fitzgordon
But what we realized is they sort of needed an overview of the process and even some direction on which trainings to approach first and how to even get started.
00:32:47 Caitlin Fitzgordon
We made a roadmap to getting clients.
00:32:50 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And actually we made the roadmap a couple of sessions ago because of requests.
00:32:54 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, a couple of years ago.
00:32:55 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah.
00:32:55 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And then this year we’re like, we need to improve it.
00:32:58 Caitlin Fitzgordon
We need to like bring this more to the forefront.
00:33:01 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so you and I went through it together and we’re putting the finishing touches on it.
00:33:05 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I’ll get it to the cohort soon.
00:33:08 Caitlin Fitzgordon
But yeah, that’s one example.
00:33:10 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Even
00:33:12 Caitlin Fitzgordon
All the resource sheets that we have for every training call, I mean, your program is just filled with so much incredible information and there’s a book in there.
00:33:22 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so we did, by request, a couple of sessions ago, people requested to have all of the resource sheets put together in one document so they could print it out, so they could, and so that’s been a big help for people and they really are into that.
00:33:38 Caitlin Fitzgordon
They can put it in their binder or have it bound for them.
00:33:42 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, I know people were asking for that.
00:33:45 Joanna Lindenbaum
that for like a cohort or two.
00:33:47 Joanna Lindenbaum
And we’re finally like, yes, this is needed.
00:33:49 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s, you know, I ask this question and I’m bringing it to the podcast because I know for our listeners, you know, sometimes the concern or the worry or the fear is like, I don’t know what all of my people’s needs are going to be.
00:34:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
before I start a program.
00:34:10 Joanna Lindenbaum
And we have this myth of perfection, it needs to all be in place at the beginning.
00:34:17 Joanna Lindenbaum
But the truth is like we can do our best to understand who our clients are and what their needs are ahead of time and then put in those components into a program.
00:34:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
But then we learn so much as we lead the programs, especially if we are, like we’re talking about today, high touch, and we’re getting, we’re hearing from clients on what their needs are and what’s going to be best for them in order to create success.
00:34:45 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I think client care isn’t just, oh, we’ve created these things ahead of time, but it’s like we’re meeting
00:34:54 Joanna Lindenbaum
our clients’ needs in real time as it’s happening.
00:34:59 Joanna Lindenbaum
And there doesn’t need to be any kind of pre-perfection there at all.
00:35:06 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, to be responsive to them in the moment also shows such a dedication to caring for them and caring about them.
00:35:13 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And not just being like, nope, sorry.
00:35:15 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, Like, this is what you paid.
00:35:18 Joanna Lindenbaum
This is what we said we’d give.
00:35:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
That’s it.
00:35:22 Joanna Lindenbaum
Right.
00:35:22 Joanna Lindenbaum
You know, we all pride ourselves on generosity, you know, and it’s care.
00:35:28 Joanna Lindenbaum
And it’s also just a good, it’s a good business practice.
00:35:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
That doesn’t mean, because you and I are over givers, let’s just be honest, right?
00:35:39 Joanna Lindenbaum
Like, sometimes we’re like overgenerous and want to give too much, right?
00:35:44 Joanna Lindenbaum
And so I don’t want to suggest that we like, that we twist ourselves into pretzels or give more than what’s possible inside of any given program.
00:35:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
And sometimes, Caitlin, you and I have to have those conversations of like,
00:36:00 Joanna Lindenbaum
can we really give this thing or maybe not so much?
00:36:05 Joanna Lindenbaum
Maybe that’s outside of the scope of what this program is.
00:36:09 Joanna Lindenbaum
But that being said, I love it and I really appreciate this about you, that you’re always like, okay, let’s go.
00:36:18 Joanna Lindenbaum
How can we make this better?
00:36:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
How can we really meet the needs?
00:36:25 Joanna Lindenbaum
So another
00:36:28 Joanna Lindenbaum
component of being high touch that I wanted to talk about are the small group discussions that we have inside of Sacred Depths.
00:36:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s one of the optional components inside of Sacred Depths.
00:36:47 Joanna Lindenbaum
Some people really want to have these small group discussions.
00:36:54 Joanna Lindenbaum
about what we’re talking about in our training calls.
00:36:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
Of course, inside of training calls, there’s tons of time for Q&A and discussion, but some people inside of the program, they want to go deeper with it.
00:37:08 Joanna Lindenbaum
They want to talk more about the topics.
00:37:11 Joanna Lindenbaum
Other people don’t have the time for it, so it’s optional.
00:37:15 Joanna Lindenbaum
But Caitlin, you lead those small group discussions.
00:37:21 Joanna Lindenbaum
Share a little bit about
00:37:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
what those are like, what do people really like about the small group discussions, what you love about them, et cetera.
00:37:33 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And that’s another example of something that was added a few cohorts ago by request and by a need that we identified was happening in the program.
00:37:43 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so
00:37:44 Caitlin Fitzgordon
The people who engage with the small groups love it for– I think the main reason is it’s an opportunity for them to communicate with each other directly.
00:37:54 Caitlin Fitzgordon
You know, so basically they show up together.
00:37:57 Caitlin Fitzgordon
We show up in a Zoom together with, you know, 10, 20 people.
00:38:02 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And we have a little check-in.
00:38:04 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And then for the bulk of the hour, they’re in small groups of three to four people.
00:38:10 Caitlin Fitzgordon
with discussion questions on the topic they most recently learned from you.
00:38:15 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so, and I give them specific questions so they’re not just thrown into a room and, talk, figure it out, And the biggest feedback that I get is how much they appreciate the connection with each other.
00:38:29 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Because I feel like we haven’t even touched upon how important community is in
00:38:33 Caitlin Fitzgordon
client care, right?
00:38:35 Caitlin Fitzgordon
That because we’re caring so much, because people feel so seen and held, they actually want to get to know the other people, and then they can benefit from those connections too.
00:38:46 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s so true.
00:38:47 Joanna Lindenbaum
I’m so glad you’re bringing this in, client care, just like any group.
00:38:53 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s not just about
00:38:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
the business or the coach and clients or students.
00:39:01 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s about how client care also impacts the community as a whole and connects everybody as a whole.
00:39:09 Joanna Lindenbaum
And yeah, I also I’ve heard from so many of our Sacred Depths students who go to the small group cohorts how they love the
00:39:24 Joanna Lindenbaum
they’d love it for the intellectual part of it and going deeper into the coaching skills.
00:39:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
But you’re right how so much of it is about connecting with other like-minded practitioners and having those discussions and getting to nerd out about coaching and transformation, just having that time with other people in the program.
00:39:53 Joanna Lindenbaum
We’ve also, it’s made me think about how we’ve also added meet and greets to our programs because the community is like, please, we want to know each other.
00:40:04 Joanna Lindenbaum
And not just, I know like in a lot of business coaching programs, it’s just for networking purposes, like let me see how I can partner with other businesses.
00:40:14 Joanna Lindenbaum
And we do have some of that inside of our programming, but I think it’s so much more.
00:40:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s like, I want to meet
00:40:22 Joanna Lindenbaum
other people.
00:40:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
I want like-minded coaching friends.
00:40:27 Joanna Lindenbaum
I want to know who else is in this with me and create relationships.
00:40:33 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yes.
00:40:34 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, and I feel like another part of it is that…
00:40:37 Caitlin Fitzgordon
especially in the beginning of the program where there’s a lot to take in and there are, learning so much.
00:40:44 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so to get into a small group, to actually dig a little deeper into it and get their understanding and realize they’re not alone, even if they’re feeling like, wow, I’m not sure I’m getting it.
00:40:54 Caitlin Fitzgordon
It’s like they both get the feeling that they’re in it together and they get to work on getting it even deeper.
00:41:01 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, agreed.
00:41:03 Joanna Lindenbaum
Agreed.
00:41:05 Joanna Lindenbaum
So
00:41:06 Joanna Lindenbaum
Everything we’ve been talking about in terms of being high touch, some of it is components inside of our programs, but I think it’s also a component of client care in general.
00:41:21 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I want to talk more about client care in terms of how we communicate with
00:41:31 Joanna Lindenbaum
our clients when it comes to onboarding, when it comes to logistics inside of our programs, when it comes to scheduling, because client care, and I said this earlier, but client care makes such a difference when a program is
00:41:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
has organization in terms of logistics.
00:42:03 Joanna Lindenbaum
When, whether it’s one-on-one coaching or in a group, when a client or a student comes into a program and they know what to expect, they understand how the program works, they understand the schedule, they understand just all of the different
00:42:28 Joanna Lindenbaum
agreements.
00:42:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
And then when there is clear and ongoing and organized communication, I really believe that it helps clients and students feel more engaged inside of programs.
00:42:47 Joanna Lindenbaum
It helps regulate them, help them feel like, okay, I know what’s happening here and I can be successful here.
00:42:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
So client care, all of that communication, it takes a lot of organization.
00:43:05 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I was hoping, Caitlin, that you might share some tips on client care and organization.
00:43:15 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I was just thinking one of the things that, you know, when someone signs up for a program with you, they almost always get a welcome e-mail from you.
00:43:23 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And then another one from me with logistics.
00:43:26 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I don’t think for curriculum lab we did, but I think for Sacred Deps and Advanced, they have both.
00:43:33 Caitlin Fitzgordon
It’s like the warm welcome from you, but also introducing me if they haven’t yet met me as another person on the team to connect with.
00:43:45 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Systems really help.
00:43:47 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Those are like automated things.
00:43:51 Caitlin Fitzgordon
when I put together the roster as if people are registering for a program, making sure I’m tracking, when I’ve reached out to them in that roster, giving myself reminders so the system is in place that I know it’s time to check in.
00:44:10 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I think connecting in with that part, like with the mission,
00:44:15 Caitlin Fitzgordon
really helps me stay focused on this is what client care is about, to be really coming from that place of just loving who they are and supporting them.
00:44:29 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I think tracking attendance and making sure that we’re aware, like if someone is starting to drop out, that we check in with them.
00:44:38 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Either you or I will recognize it and we’ll talk about who’s going to check in and when.
00:44:46 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Even between programs, because we’ll have a program that wraps up like Sacred Depths and then Advanced Depth is starting maybe a couple of months afterward if people have signed on for the next thing.
00:44:58 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so making sure that in between programs there’s communication, there’s supporting people, there’s recognizing that they’re in this limbo.
00:45:07 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so we provide that connection and engagement with them to carry through.
00:45:14 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
00:45:14 Joanna Lindenbaum
And all of that, like you’re saying, is it takes some attention to detail, kind of knowing each person and where they’re at in terms of what they need or what stage of program they’re in, et cetera, et cetera.
00:45:36 Joanna Lindenbaum
This is actually something I don’t know, Caitlin.
00:45:38 Joanna Lindenbaum
So I’m going to ask you, because I think it will be valuable.
00:45:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
for our listeners, we send out one of the client care pieces, ways that we communicate is before each call, we send out a reminder, the call is happening tomorrow, here’s the Zoom link, you know, here’s the time, et cetera, et cetera.
00:46:04 Joanna Lindenbaum
Do you set all of those up
00:46:08 Joanna Lindenbaum
at the beginning of the program ahead of time, or are you setting those up week by week?
00:46:14 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Ahead of time, like usually we, like with Sacred Deps, we do the first half, and then toward the end of the first half, we set up the second-half.
00:46:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, there’s so many calls in that program.
00:46:25 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, exactly.
00:46:28 Joanna Lindenbaum
It makes sense.
00:46:29 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, the curriculum lab was all set up before it started.
00:46:32 Joanna Lindenbaum
So a lot of that, a lot of those client care communications you’re setting up
00:46:38 Joanna Lindenbaum
beforehand so that it’s not, oh, oh my gosh, it’s due today.
00:46:44 Joanna Lindenbaum
Let me get the e-mail out.
00:46:47 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Exactly.
00:46:49 Joanna Lindenbaum
What are some of the pitfalls when it comes to organization or what are some things that people should really be thinking about with client care and organization?
00:47:03 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I mean, I think that
00:47:06 Caitlin Fitzgordon
having those things automated if you have it as an option is really helpful, but also like double checking it or if you make changes because we do plan things so far in advance and then life happens, making sure that all the different places where it exists because we have a Facebook reminder, we have an e-mail reminder, we have
00:47:26 Caitlin Fitzgordon
a spreadsheet that has the calls listed.
00:47:29 Caitlin Fitzgordon
We have an ad event where people can sign up and have everything populated in their calendar.
00:47:34 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So just making sure that all of those different areas are covered when you make changes.
00:47:41 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, you just, in what you’re talking about, there’s two things that I want to pull on.
00:47:47 Joanna Lindenbaum
So the first is, especially when you have a long program like Sacred Depths, it’s 10 months.
00:47:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
I’ll do my best ahead of time to create the schedule so that it doesn’t change.
00:48:03 Joanna Lindenbaum
But like you said, life happens and we try not to change dates too much.
00:48:10 Joanna Lindenbaum
But every now and again, I have to change a date that we’ve had on the schedule.
00:48:17 Joanna Lindenbaum
So first of all,
00:48:19 Joanna Lindenbaum
I try to only do this when I absolutely have to, because I know it’s a disruption in terms of the container to be changing dates around too much.
00:48:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I really try, unless it’s an emergency, try to do it like months in advance so that people have time
00:48:40 Joanna Lindenbaum
to prepare for it so they don’t feel like, I signed up for this program because I thought I could do all the dates and now I can’t do all the dates.
00:48:49 Joanna Lindenbaum
So first I just wanted to pull on all of that, life happens sometimes for all of us.
00:48:54 Joanna Lindenbaum
And every now and again, there has to be a change.
00:48:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
But we want to be like, do it with care and ahead of time.
00:49:04 Joanna Lindenbaum
And then the other thing that
00:49:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
you spoke to, which I’m so glad you spoke to, is that we really try to think about what are the, some people learn in one way or take in information in one way, and other people take in information in other ways.
00:49:24 Joanna Lindenbaum
So even in terms of a schedule for a program, it’s not just in one place.
00:49:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
We don’t just only have the schedule inside of.
00:49:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
the member center, but we also have an ad event where if people want to just click and add all of the sessions to their online calendar, they can do that.
00:49:47 Joanna Lindenbaum
And then on top of that, we also send e-mail reminders so that we’re covering
00:49:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
people in lots of different ways, depending on how their brains work, depending on their level of organization.
00:50:06 Joanna Lindenbaum
We don’t only give a Zoom link in the member center because who has time, you know, necessarily to always go into the member center to grab the Zoom link before calls, we’re sharing the Zoom link as well.
00:50:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
We’re trying to
00:50:26 Joanna Lindenbaum
make it as easy as possible for different learning styles and different brains to have logistics in order.
00:50:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
Because again, when logistics are in order, then everything runs more smoothly for the client experience.
00:50:43 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, and it’s, you know, each thing I feel like has been an upgrade too.
00:50:47 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Like as we’ve recognized, we want to add something like the ad event was new a couple of rounds ago.
00:50:53 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And
00:50:54 Caitlin Fitzgordon
You know, part of it is as tech starts developing new things, we’re like, oh, this is a great thing to add.
00:51:00 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, and we’re not tech people, just for anyone listening, thinking like, but I can’t do that in my business.
00:51:06 Joanna Lindenbaum
Like, yes, we have Lara, who is amazing at tech, but I don’t, I also don’t think we necessarily, we use tech, but it doesn’t, it’s not always the latest and greatest.
00:51:19 Joanna Lindenbaum
I know I’m old fashioned.
00:51:23 Joanna Lindenbaum
But speaking of tech, I think that’s a great segue, because the other thing I wanted to say is that client care isn’t the same for every business, because client care is so dependent on who are the clients inside of the business and what are their needs specifically.
00:51:51 Joanna Lindenbaum
And
00:51:52 Joanna Lindenbaum
So it’s really important as a business owner, as a client care coordinator, to know your people and to know maybe what their strengths are and what some of their gaps are when it comes to logistics.
00:52:11 Joanna Lindenbaum
And so, for example,
00:52:13 Joanna Lindenbaum
Because I’m not such a tech person, I know that my students are not always so comfortable with tech, with getting into the member center, for example, and finding
00:52:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
their way around it, even inside of curriculum lab.
00:52:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
I give a lot of feedback on curriculum and I ask that people put their curriculum on Google Docs, but not everybody knows how to do that, etc.
00:52:46 Joanna Lindenbaum
So, Caitlin, talk a little bit about some things that we’ve done inside of our client care to
00:52:59 Joanna Lindenbaum
really meet those needs of our specific clients.
00:53:04 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I mean, I think one of the biggest things is that I’ll offer to hop on a Zoom with someone to just give them an orientation of the member center.
00:53:12 Caitlin Fitzgordon
You know, I’ve looked at it so many times, it’s intuitive for me, but if it’s the first time in our particular style of member center, someone might need a little orientation.
00:53:23 Caitlin Fitzgordon
You know, we send
00:53:26 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I feel like that’s the biggest one.
00:53:27 Caitlin Fitzgordon
There’s a video orientation that goes in as well.
00:53:31 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, I wanted to pause on the video too, because before, most of the time you don’t need to, you do hop on the phone with people if they need help with the member center, which is amazing.
00:53:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
But I think
00:53:47 Joanna Lindenbaum
the video that you’ve created, that’s an orientation to the member center that kind of helps people need to even, but they don’t need to get on the phone with you.
00:53:59 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I think that’s just another great example of, we know our people need
00:54:05 Joanna Lindenbaum
video instructions.
00:54:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
A lot of them are going to need video instructions on how to use the member center, on how to give me permission so that I can make suggestions on their Google Doc.
00:54:19 Joanna Lindenbaum
And so we’re tracking that and then you’re making videos or instruction sheets for the people that need them.
00:54:30 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah, I mean, I’ll do that even just if someone has a request for how to find something, I’ll make a quick, I do it on Zoom usually, and just send them the recording so they can find it more easily.
00:54:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
00:54:44 Joanna Lindenbaum
Great.
00:54:46 Joanna Lindenbaum
So the other piece that I wanted to ask you about, because it’s really, as always, important to keep it real, is that
00:55:01 Joanna Lindenbaum
We are really good at being detail oriented and you need to be detail oriented for really good client care.
00:55:12 Joanna Lindenbaum
And also we’re human.
00:55:13 Joanna Lindenbaum
I’m human and you’re human.
00:55:15 Joanna Lindenbaum
And because we’re human, we’re imperfect.
00:55:19 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I know that every now and again, it’s rare, but it does sometimes happen, especially because we have so many programs and so many clients, every now and again, we might send out a piece of information that has an error on it or a wrong link.
00:55:40 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I know at first we’re all always like, oh,
00:55:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
So I wish that didn’t happen.
00:55:46 Joanna Lindenbaum
But I wanted you, just so that we can normalize this for everyone, I wanted you to speak, Caitlin, a little bit about how you handle this and what you do when something with an error goes out.
00:56:03 Caitlin Fitzgordon
The best is when we catch it before it goes out.
00:56:05 Caitlin Fitzgordon
But sometimes we don’t.
00:56:08 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so usually as soon as the error is brought to my attention, whether I notice it or a client reaches out to me, I’ll send out an e-mail correction and we’ll reach out and we’ll check in with people to make sure that they’ve received it.
00:56:25 Caitlin Fitzgordon
But the biggest thing is to apologize, to own it and to fix it, right?
00:56:30 Caitlin Fitzgordon
To just, you know, not even make a huge deal about it other than like, here’s the correction, let’s move on.
00:56:37 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah.
00:56:37 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And I don’t mean move on in the like dismissing their concern way.
00:56:40 Caitlin Fitzgordon
It’s like, yes, but here, you know, we have a solution.
00:56:44 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, First of all, I love those three steps that you just said.
00:56:48 Joanna Lindenbaum
Apologize for it sincerely.
00:56:52 Joanna Lindenbaum
Own that you’ve made the mistake with sincerity.
00:56:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
Don’t try to like make excuses or anything like that.
00:57:00 Joanna Lindenbaum
Understand that it can cause
00:57:03 Joanna Lindenbaum
some upheaval for people, right?
00:57:06 Joanna Lindenbaum
So apologize and own it and then swiftly give instructions.
00:57:13 Joanna Lindenbaum
or fix it.
00:57:15 Joanna Lindenbaum
And then that fourth piece that I heard you saying, I think it’s so important for all of our listeners too, because I know our listeners are like us and we feel bad and we just want everything to go exactly right all the time is like that move on piece, I think that you’re talking about is like, don’t beat yourself up for it.
00:57:38 Joanna Lindenbaum
And
00:57:40 Joanna Lindenbaum
And energy follows energy too, like apologize, don’t make it a smaller deal than it is, but don’t make it a bigger deal than it is.
00:57:50 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Yeah.
00:57:51 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And validate their experience that it did cause a disruption and it was stressful and, you know.
00:57:56 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yes.
00:57:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
00:57:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
00:57:59 Joanna Lindenbaum
So as always, we are sometimes messy, like no myth of perfection here.
00:58:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I always like to
00:58:10 Joanna Lindenbaum
to share those pieces, because I know that a lot of times people feel like I can’t do it until it’s perfect, or I’ll never be able to do it because it could be messy.
00:58:22 Joanna Lindenbaum
And in life, it’s not about trying to avoid the mess.
00:58:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
I mean, yes, it is trying, you know, we want to be as careful as possible and set things up, but it’s understanding that we can’t always avoid the mess.
00:58:36 Joanna Lindenbaum
And so how do we handle it?
00:58:38 Joanna Lindenbaum
Right.
00:58:40 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And it just reminds me, there was a, my very first yoga class that I taught.
00:58:45 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I showed up to take class and the teacher wasn’t, the teacher didn’t show up.
00:58:50 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And it was the studio where I did my training.
00:58:53 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And they were like, Caitlin, you want to do it?
00:58:54 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And I’m like, sure.
00:58:56 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And it was, you know, I was not prepared.
00:58:58 Caitlin Fitzgordon
It was like terrible.
00:58:59 Caitlin Fitzgordon
But for me, it was like good to just dive in and have that first teaching experience happen.
00:59:05 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So I just share that in the, you know,
00:59:07 Caitlin Fitzgordon
if it’s helpful to just like, sometimes, we dive in, we, it’s messy.
00:59:11 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And then I became a yoga teacher and still do teach to this day, 25 years later.
00:59:16 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So.
00:59:17 Joanna Lindenbaum
I love that.
00:59:18 Joanna Lindenbaum
I never knew that story.
00:59:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
That’s so great.
00:59:21 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s such a great, yeah, like you said, dive in.
00:59:24 Joanna Lindenbaum
And even if it’s messy, go for it.
00:59:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
So as always, I want to do more than we have time for.
00:59:33 Joanna Lindenbaum
our conversation is getting long.
00:59:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
I wanted to talk all about certification and high touch and sort of certification and sacred depths, but I think we’ll save it for another episode.
00:59:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
We could do a whole episode on it.
00:59:48 Joanna Lindenbaum
Is there anything that
00:59:51 Joanna Lindenbaum
We didn’t talk about today, though, Caitlin, that you’re like, oh, I want to make sure that we mention this when it comes to high touch or client care.
01:00:02 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I mean, I think we touched upon it.
01:00:04 Caitlin Fitzgordon
The thing that I was thinking about was just like making sure we acknowledge the community piece and that it’s created from the high touch experience.
01:00:16 Caitlin Fitzgordon
right?
01:00:16 Caitlin Fitzgordon
When people feel valued, seen, heard, and loved, they’re going to feel more confident to reach out to other people, more connected to other people.
01:00:29 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And I think, and that confidence piece, I guess, is another aspect of that, regardless of community.
01:00:34 Caitlin Fitzgordon
But like, we really do care and value everyone’s mission, everyone’s voice, everyone’s perspective.
01:00:42 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And so
01:00:43 Caitlin Fitzgordon
When they get that boost from us, it helps them believe it for themselves too.
01:00:49 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s so true.
01:00:50 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s so true.
01:00:52 Joanna Lindenbaum
I love that you’re mentioning this because I really feel like our spaces and our containers and our environments, and it’s not just the class space that’s the full container of a program.
01:01:02 Joanna Lindenbaum
It’s so supportive and motivating and builds so much love and self-love.
01:01:11 Joanna Lindenbaum
We’ve spoken A lot
01:01:13 Joanna Lindenbaum
about how being high touch and how exceptional client care really supports our clients to be more successful.
01:01:27 Joanna Lindenbaum
Can you talk a little bit about what you’ve observed, and because also you’re on the sales team too, you also do sales, what you’ve observed about how being
01:01:41 Joanna Lindenbaum
high touch and really being committed to client care, how it’s helped our business.
01:01:48 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Because we’re relationship people, because we value that so much, and the connections that I make through potential students who maybe don’t sign up initially, but our continued engagement with them and my continued connection with them,
01:02:07 Caitlin Fitzgordon
there are people who I, have been in conversation with for a year or more who do eventually sign up for a program.
01:02:16 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And I think part of it is that they feel recognized and seen.
01:02:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
01:02:22 Joanna Lindenbaum
I always like to say, this is one of the things that I teach, you know, this, that sales and marketing is all about relationships.
01:02:33 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah.
01:02:34 Joanna Lindenbaum
It really is.
01:02:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
whether it’s one-to-one or one-to-many, but those high-touch relationships and then that feeling of being seen and held through the client care, I think it just makes such a difference for client renewals and referrals, of course, in addition to all of the amazing quality they get inside of the programs.
01:02:59 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And I think for someone who’s new to a program,
01:03:02 Caitlin Fitzgordon
They’re like surprised sometimes that I reach out and check in because they’re expected like, oh, I’m in this program with 100 people, no one cares.
01:03:11 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And it really is like such a delightful surprise and it warms their heart and makes me so happy that I get to offer that.
01:03:20 Joanna Lindenbaum
Agree, agree.
01:03:21 Joanna Lindenbaum
Same when I reach out, even though I tell people I might reach out in the beginning of the program, it’s like,
01:03:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
I’ll reach out to someone and say, hey, how are you doing?
01:03:32 Joanna Lindenbaum
Or I’ve been thinking about you, how’s it going with this or that?
01:03:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
And so often they’re like, I’m so honored that you reached out.
01:03:40 Joanna Lindenbaum
And I’m like, no, the honor is mine.
01:03:43 Joanna Lindenbaum
This is a relationship I want.
01:03:48 Joanna Lindenbaum
So, okay, as we wrap for today, last question I’m going to ask is if you could give one piece of advice for listeners who are really resonating with this conversation and they want to implement high touch or better client care, what is the, what is one piece of advice that you would give?
01:04:14 Caitlin Fitzgordon
That it comes from– at its core, this high-touch piece comes from really deeply caring and loving your community.
01:04:23 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And it’s connected to the mission, right, that you really want to be coming from that place, from your own sense of confidence, that you are– that you feel loved and seen too, you know?
01:04:38 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Taking care.
01:04:39 Caitlin Fitzgordon
So I, this is not one piece.
01:04:41 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I feel like I came, there’s a whole bunch coming out, but it’s also just like caring for yourself so that you’re able to offer that care too.
01:04:52 Joanna Lindenbaum
Yeah, I want to, I just want to like underline both of those pieces because I really love both of them.
01:04:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
So first of all, you know, in order to give really good client care,
01:05:05 Joanna Lindenbaum
we have to actually care.
01:05:07 Joanna Lindenbaum
I think we started this conversation in this way, and I’m so glad that we’re coming back around to it.
01:05:12 Joanna Lindenbaum
Like people feel it if you’re just doing it to do it, if you’re like sending the outreach because you feel like you have to, versus there is deep care inside of this, you know, and that the other person isn’t an object of like, oh, I’m just
01:05:29 Joanna Lindenbaum
need them to be more successful in the program or this or that, but that it’s a real person that you care about.
01:05:35 Joanna Lindenbaum
And then the other piece that you said is, yeah, in order to care for others, we also want to care for ourselves.
01:05:44 Joanna Lindenbaum
And the two are so inextricably linked.
01:05:48 Joanna Lindenbaum
Brilliant.
01:05:48 Joanna Lindenbaum
I love it.
01:05:49 Joanna Lindenbaum
I love it.
01:05:50 Joanna Lindenbaum
Well, Caitlin, thank you for this conversation and also for being the first person to have a conversation on the podcast.
01:06:01 Joanna Lindenbaum
Your presence and your care made me less nervous about it.
01:06:06 Joanna Lindenbaum
So thank you.
01:06:07 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Thank you.
01:06:08 Caitlin Fitzgordon
It’s such an honor.
01:06:09 Caitlin Fitzgordon
I mean, it’s fun to have this experience with you and we are together for and have been together for so long.
01:06:15 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And this is just like a new way of expressing it.
01:06:17 Caitlin Fitzgordon
And it’s been really great.
01:06:19 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Thank you.
01:06:20 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Agreed.
01:06:21 Caitlin Fitzgordon
Agreed.
01:06:21 Joanna Lindenbaum
So to our listeners, I hope you really got a lot out of
01:06:27 Joanna Lindenbaum
the episode today.
01:06:30 Joanna Lindenbaum
If you loved this episode, as always, please let us know.
01:06:34 Joanna Lindenbaum
Write to us as part of client care.
01:06:36 Joanna Lindenbaum
We want to hear from you.
01:06:39 Joanna Lindenbaum
I will read every note that you send and respond personally.
01:06:45 Joanna Lindenbaum
If you know someone who would really love and value this episode, please let them know about it as well.
01:06:52 Joanna Lindenbaum
Thanks.
01:06:58 Joanna Lindenbaum
.
01:07:07 Caitlin Fitzgordon
.
01:07:16 Caitlin Fitzgordon
.
