Transcript00:00:05 Speaker 1I’m Joanna Lindenbaum, a coach ritualist and all around transformation nerd who is obsessed with helping clients go deep to create more change.00:00:17 Speaker 1And results with their clients.00:00:19 Speaker 1I created the Coaching Revolution podcast to share with you coaching skills, tips and advice, as well as a deeper understanding of human behavior and.00:00:29 Speaker 1Yourself so that you can do even better client work and group work.00:00:34 Speaker 1Grow your business organically.00:00:36 Speaker 1And know that you’re making a real difference in the world.00:00:41 Speaker 1This is about creating a revolution in the transformational industry so that more practitioners feel amazing about what they do.00:00:51 Speaker 1And so that more of our clients experience life changing shifts, let’s get started.00:01:01 Speaker 1Welcome back to the Coaching Revolution podcast.00:01:05 Speaker 1We are going to do something a little different for today’s episode, something that we haven’t yet done on the podcast.00:01:14 Speaker 1I am replaying an interview that I was on on another podcast about a year ago, a little over a year ago. Actually. It was on the let’s Lead Together podcast with Marley Williams.00:01:30 Speaker 1Marley is a colleague of mine that I’ve known for quite a while and she interviewed me on how to create transformational experiences for groups.00:01:44 Speaker 1Our conversation was really fun and filled with so many tips. I gave tips. Marley gave tips on how to bring your groups in your programs together.00:01:59 Speaker 1So that your participants are.00:02:03 Speaker 1We looked at how to work with fear.00:02:06 Speaker 1We looked at groups and regulation.00:02:11 Speaker 1Marley and I both told some pretty potent personal stories as well.00:02:16 Speaker 1I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope that you will too if you are leading workshops.00:02:27 Speaker 1Retreats circles group programs.00:02:30 Speaker 1This is an episode that you definitely want to pay attention to.00:02:36 Speaker 1Enjoy.00:02:41 Speaker 2Right.00:02:43 Speaker 2All right, everybody, welcome back to the Marley Williams podcast.00:02:48 Speaker 2I am so stoked to have you all here and I am really excited to have a powerful conversation with one of my mentors, Joanna Lindenbaum.00:02:59 Speaker 2Who is just such a masterful facilitator and practitioner?00:03:03 Speaker 2And I’m just so stoked to have you here.00:03:06 Speaker 2You for being here today.00:03:08 Speaker 1You’re so welcome. And just taking all of that into my heart.00:03:11 Speaker 1For that.00:03:12 Speaker 1I’m thrilled to be here.00:03:13Hmm.00:03:14 Speaker 2I just think it’s so important for for coaches to have coaches for mentors, to have mentors and you know, I’ve been witness, been a witness to your work.00:03:23 Speaker 2Been a student of your work over the years and just seeing who you are in the world. Seeing how you show up.00:03:31 Speaker 2I would love for you to have an opportunity for you to introduce yourself to this amazing podcast audience and community.00:03:39 Speaker 2What your work is in the world and what’s lighting you up the most about your work right now, you can and we’ll just kick things off from there.00:03:49 Speaker 1Yeah, I love.00:03:50 Speaker 1Great. So OK, I could go on and on, but I’ll keep it short about, you know what I do a little bit like how I came to it.00:03:59 Speaker 1I was. You know what you could call a leadership coach and business coach, which was amazing.00:04:07 Speaker 1I loved.00:04:08 Speaker 1I love supporting my clients to move forward in their business and on an inner level, you know.00:04:16 Speaker 1To to work through the fears and the beliefs.00:04:19 Speaker 1One thing I noticed a couple years into it was that one of the reasons why my clients they were all.00:04:28 Speaker 1Coaches, therapists, leaders, practitioners. One of the reasons why my clients were doing so well in.00:04:38 Speaker 1So much to do with the marketing techniques, teaching them how to do it.00:04:44 Speaker 1Inner work.00:04:46 Speaker 1And it had a lot to do with the fact that all of the the coaching and transformation techniques that I was modeling for them, they were bringing into their own work.00:04:58 Speaker 1They were bringing that into their own work.00:05:01 Speaker 1Their people became raving.00:05:03 Speaker 1Their their clients, you know, were re signing were sending referrals and then they were feeling more confident to put themselves out in the world because, you know, they had this success.00:05:15 Speaker 1So it was a light bulb moment of, oh, when I’m actually really teaching people are these.00:05:22 Speaker 1Techniques for going deeper with clients and going deeper with yourself.00:05:28 Speaker 1And so that’s how I came to do the work that I do now, which is really supporting transformational practitioners to go deeper in their one-on-one work in their group, work in their leadership.00:05:40 Speaker 1With themselves, I love the coaching and transformational industries so much and also sometimes I feel like there’s too much of an emphasis on marketing.00:05:51 Speaker 1And not enough of an emphasis on quality and really knowing how to go there with clients and groups and.00:06:02 Speaker 1That’s at, at its core, what the work is about.00:06:07 Speaker 1And the stealth mission, which is, you know, you said like, what’s really lighting me up.00:06:13 Speaker 1Underneath all of that, really, at the end of the day, one of the things that that all of the trainings and work that I do it, it helps people.00:06:24 Speaker 1Learn how to love and accept every little last part of themselves, not just the pretty parts, but the unsavory parts.00:06:34 Speaker 1Parts that they have previously rejected put into shadow it.00:06:40 Speaker 1By learning these deeper techniques by going through it themselves, we’re all learning how to love and accept ourselves and others more deeply.00:06:49 Speaker 1To me, that’s the most exciting thing I could.00:06:52 Speaker 2Wow. That. I mean, that’s really the essence of.00:06:56 Speaker 2And I think that that’s what makes your work so unique is your commitment.00:07:04 Speaker 2To really high level service of you know like how do you fill retreats or how do you get speaking engagements. I always say like be really good at what you do. But I feel like underneath it’s like how do I help people be the best facilitators and coach?00:07:20 Speaker 2And practitioners and really have.00:07:23 Speaker 2Integrity around their work.00:07:25 Speaker 2Work and one of the things that I know is that in this transformation space is you can only take someone to the depth that you have also gone to and so it’s like yes, learning the modalities, learning the tools so that you can deliver that transformation for others.00:07:42 Speaker 2But actually applying that to your own work, if if you’re wanting to help people work through their shadows, have you worked through your shadows and this level of self acceptance?00:07:56 Speaker 2Self.00:07:57 Speaker 2Self-awareness and our capacity to love.00:08:02 Speaker 2Will ultimately increase our capacity to really witness our clients and help them go to those places that we’ve been and being the mentor, being the guide helping them.00:08:17 Speaker 2You know, to the top of whatever their mountain is because we’ve we’ve been there and you know, we just need to be a few steps ahead.00:08:25 Speaker 2But really, doing like the importance of doing that work on ourselves so that we can.00:08:32 Speaker 2Of service for others, and I think you’re. You’re such a stand for how important that really is and I really appreciate that.00:08:41 Speaker 1Thank you.00:08:42 Speaker 1And yes, everything that you said.00:08:46 Speaker 2I love it and I think that one of the things that I love so much is just this idea of of depth and going, going deep with people.00:08:56 Speaker 2And so I’d be curious from your perspective of like what, what that actually means to take someone to the depths of who they are, you know, for those of you out there who you’re a transformational leader, coach.00:09:10 Speaker 2Mentor facilitator or someone who’s personally wanting to do the work, and this idea of like I want.00:09:19 Speaker 2And I hear that all the time of like, I don’t just want to stay on the surface level because I think one of the hard parts about self, the self help space and self improvement is that intellectually we can understand our shadow.00:09:34 Speaker 2Intellectually, we can understand motivation, goal setting, setting intention, like intellectually, I feel like it’s.00:09:42 Speaker 2Just do it.00:09:44 Speaker 2Just put yourself out there.00:09:46 Speaker 2Mark.00:09:47 Speaker 2Just have coffee right like.00:09:48 Speaker 2Intellectually, understand, like, oh, I need to have confidence to have a sales convers.00:09:55 Speaker 2But my friend, my really good friend Lissette says.00:09:58 Speaker 2Get what we believe at the deepest level.00:10:01 Speaker 1I love that yes.00:10:03 Speaker 2And so how do we take people to the depths?00:10:06 Speaker 2Does that look like?00:10:06 Speaker 2Does that mean?00:10:08 Speaker 2We can jam on that.00:10:09 Speaker 1Yeah. So you already spoke to some of it and I’ll just pull on some more pieces.00:10:15 Speaker 1Is every now and again we might, as practitioners, be able to luck out with a client and stay on the surface they say they.00:10:23 Speaker 1A.00:10:24 Speaker 1We strategize out vision out the.00:10:26 Speaker 1We strategize out the goal and then the client goes and does it, you know, or maybe mentions them a little scared of this and we we talk about it for right, but they’re still able to do it.00:10:37 Speaker 1That’s amazing.00:10:39 Speaker 1And also the exception to the rule.00:10:43 Speaker 1Human beings are messy.00:10:45 Speaker 1We come with our beliefs. We come with our fears.00:10:48 Speaker 1Come with our hidden shadows.00:10:50 Speaker 1Come with our resistances.00:10:54 Speaker 1And as practitioners, if we’re not able to get into those Craggs in real ways and like you said, not just cognitively but somatically and inactivating also the heart.00:11:09 Speaker 1And activating the spirit, which I’ll explain in a moment if we’re not able to do that.00:11:15 Speaker 1Our clients are not going to take the actions.00:11:18 Speaker 1Not gonna move towards their goals.00:11:21 Speaker 1And.00:11:22 Speaker 1Not only will they end up feeling frustrated, but we’re gonna end up questioning ourselves like, oh, my good.00:11:29 Speaker 1Ness am ia.00:11:29 Speaker 1Did I take their money? And you know all the things? And am I living in my purpose so?00:11:37 Speaker 1When we’re able to go deep to me, what that means is we’re not going deep.00:11:44 Speaker 1Like for naval gazing purposes. Although I like to do that sometimes too.00:11:51 Speaker 1Philosophical and a little obsessive with myself. But you know, in our work with clients, we’re going deep so that we can help our clients soften up and loosen up.00:12:03 Speaker 1Up all of the.00:12:06 Speaker 1That are in their way of taking action, of showing up for what they want, of being who they want to be, and in order to loosen all of those obstacles. You know, again, we can call them fear.00:12:20 Speaker 1The fears fear of.00:12:22 Speaker 1Fear of acceptance. We can call them.00:12:25 Speaker 1I need to be this, you know, or I need to be that.00:12:29 Speaker 1And then shadows much more complicated. But, you know, even pretending like they don’t have parts of themselves that they do.00:12:38 Speaker 1We wanna.00:12:39 Speaker 1Deep in order to really engage with the fears with the beliefs that are no longer.00:12:46 Speaker 1Helpful and with the hidden and the repressed shadows so that not only can our clients.00:12:54 Speaker 1Cognitively understand themselves more?00:12:58 Speaker 1Really important.00:13:00 Speaker 1We want that.00:13:02 Speaker 2Right.00:13:02 Speaker 1But so that we can also then from that cognitive understanding.00:13:08 Speaker 1Support our clients in real ways to shift.00:13:13 Speaker 1How their bodies, how their nervous systems?00:13:19 Speaker 1Are in relationship with those fears and those beliefs and those.00:13:24 Speaker 1We’re not trying to get rid of anything except for unhelpful beliefs, but we’re actually not trying to get rid of fears or shadows.00:13:29 Speaker 1We’re trying to get more regulated and grounded inside of ourselves so that.00:13:33 Speaker 1Can move forward.00:13:35 Speaker 1With the.00:13:36 Speaker 2Yeah, I I appreciate that so much and I’ve been doing a lot of deep work this year and I went to a training and they said the most powerful person in the room.00:13:50 Speaker 2Is the person with the most regulated nervous system.00:13:54 Speaker 2That’s.00:13:55 Speaker 2And so everything that we did was essentially to activate our nervous system and learn to regulate. So. And, you know, and any anything like this, the idea of doing a sales call can activate our nervous system.00:14:13 Speaker 2About we’re about to get on stage.00:14:15Sh.00:14:16 Speaker 2That can activate our nervous system or deliver a webinar or a workshop, or a master class, or even before getting on a coaching call with a current client.00:14:27 Speaker 2And so how do we cultivate this capacity within ourselves to understand?00:14:34 Speaker 2What activates that?00:14:36 Speaker 2What our tendencies are and and learn how to how to regulate and and understand our emotions right are a piece of it.00:14:47 Speaker 2Our intuition, our mind.00:14:49 Speaker 2How do we get into a state?00:14:53 Speaker 2As a facilitator, as a leader that allows us to be of deep service.00:15:01 Speaker 2Ultimately, you know.00:15:02Yes.00:15:03 Speaker 1Absolutely. And parts of that work are about learning.00:15:08 Speaker 1Regulation practices in general and then part of that that depth work is about learning how to engage with the fears and.00:15:20 Speaker 1In a different way and what I like to say is to be friend, to become friends with them.00:15:28 Speaker 1I think.00:15:28 Speaker 1Often we think because culture tells us get rid of the fear, banish the fear, Vanquish the fear.00:15:37 Speaker 1We’ll even release.00:15:40 Speaker 1That’s not.00:15:40 Speaker 1Well, that’s actually not the goal.00:15:44 Speaker 1The goal is to become better friends with it, to hold the fear in a regulated way so that you’re still able to take action and respond from that place.00:15:57 Speaker 1Because The thing is as like to say, the fears in particular.00:16:03 Speaker 1We don’t want to get.00:16:04 Speaker 1Need.00:16:05 Speaker 1So I always use the metaphor of the smoke alarm.00:16:10 Speaker 1We need the smoke alarm in the kitchen.00:16:14 Speaker 1There might be a fire.00:16:15 Speaker 2Right.00:16:16 Speaker 1The problem is that sometimes the smoke alarm doesn’t know the difference between.00:16:21 Speaker 1A legit fire and burnt toast. But that doesn’t mean we’re gonna take the smoke alarm out of the house.00:16:28 Speaker 1We need to.00:16:29 Speaker 1Understand the smoke alarm better. So we go up.00:16:34 Speaker 1That’s just burnt toast. Or that was a.00:16:36 Speaker 120 years ago, but for who I am today, that’s just burnt toast, right?00:16:41 Speaker 1No, this is danger.00:16:43 Speaker 1Taking myself.00:16:45 Speaker 1Out of this situation, right?00:16:46 Speaker 2And I and I.00:16:47 Speaker 2Love this idea of and I think it doesn’t ever go away, right and our our brains are wired for safety and survival, not possibility and performance.00:17:00 Speaker 2And this idea of like it it does have a.00:17:04 Speaker 2It does have a role and it’s just making sure that it’s not driving the car right? Like Elizabeth Gilbert has this beautiful.00:17:14 Speaker 2Excerpt from her book Big Magic called The Road Trip, and she just talks about, you know, fear. I know you’re a part of this family.00:17:21 Speaker 2But you’re not allowed to touch the maps. You’re not allowed to touch the radio.00:17:25 Speaker 2You know all of that?00:17:27 Speaker 2And so you’re you’re forbidden to drive.00:17:29 Speaker 2And so it’s it’s like you are gonna be here and especially like the you wanna take things to the next level or you wanna get on the sages.00:17:37 Speaker 2Not about like.00:17:39 Speaker 2I think that this illusion of people waiting for that fear to go away.00:17:44 Speaker 1Never gonna happen.00:17:45 Speaker 2It’s never going to happen.00:17:46 Speaker 2Happen. And so yeah. Can I learn to be with it? And like you said, to befriend it so that I can move through it, knock it over it and not release it, but be with it in a way that it serves me rather than stops me.00:18:05 Speaker 2And to one of my mantras is my desire to be of service is greater than my fear.00:18:12I.00:18:13 Speaker 1Love that.00:18:14 Speaker 2And so I’m. I’m more committed. You know, if if one of my fears is getting it right and looking good.00:18:22 Speaker 2My desire to be of service has to kind of like be above that, but like I would and I’ve had funny mantras in my head over the years, like even my worst workshop could change someone’s life.00:18:35 Speaker 2Even my worst talk could change someone’s life, and I’m not trying to go for like, I don’t want it to be bad, but it’s like.00:18:43 Speaker 2That I’m more committed to serving people than, you know, the ego really wants to like the the inner, the perfectionism, the people pleaser.00:18:54 Speaker 2I want everybody to get it and like it and have breakthroughs and transformation.00:18:58 Speaker 2If they.00:18:58 Speaker 2And what if they want their money?00:19:00 Speaker 2Know all the fears.00:19:02 Speaker 2And it’s like, well, what?00:19:04 Speaker 2OK, let’s go there.00:19:07 Speaker 2What if I?00:19:08 Speaker 2What if I forget my line?00:19:09 Speaker 2If I mess up.00:19:12 Speaker 1Exactly. Exactly.00:19:15 Speaker 1It’s it’s, you know, I can still be safe.00:19:18 Speaker 1I can completely bomb.00:19:20 Speaker 2And still.00:19:21 Speaker 2Safe. And I think that that that ability to kind of insource our sense of safety.00:19:29 Speaker 2Rather than outsource it.00:19:31Yes.00:19:31 Speaker 2Right. Like I’m only safe if everybody in this training loves me.00:19:38 Speaker 2You know versus like I’m safe.00:19:39 Speaker 2Matter what?00:19:41 Speaker 2And I’m committed to being of service.00:19:44 Speaker 2And I have to cultivate that because when when we outsource that, that’s when we I don’t think can be.00:19:52Yeah.00:19:52 Speaker 2Has in service.00:19:55 Speaker 1Completely and part of the work for ourselves and I love how you’re speaking to the difference between outsourcing and insourcing. And I think that part of the work for ourselves and also.00:20:07 Speaker 1When we support our clients and our group participants with this, you know another way to say what you’re saying is as follows.00:20:15 Speaker 1When we were younger, we needed to outsource.00:20:20 Speaker 1Because we didn’t have.00:20:22 Speaker 1The internal resources? Yeah. To feel safe in certain situations, right?00:20:28 Speaker 1Literally were not safe.00:20:31 Speaker 1Unless we outsource.00:20:33 Speaker 1And then oftentimes what happens is adults.00:20:37 Speaker 1In a.00:20:38 Speaker 1Now we go to be visible. Not everybody might like us.00:20:43 Speaker 1We might be rejected and we forget that we have those inner resources now.00:20:50 Speaker 1In the moment.00:20:51 Speaker 1We don’t do the sphere work.00:20:53 Speaker 1Everything we’re talking about in the moment, we’re slammed back to when we were five and literally we needed to outsource.00:21:01 Speaker 1Right. So part of the work for ourselves and part of the work with clients is to actually create awareness between the then in there and the here and now and the resources that we did or didn’t have back then versus the resources that we do have right now.00:21:16 Speaker 2I think that that’s so important to recognize that like, again, all of these things have served a purpose.00:21:24 Speaker 2Yeah. In our life at some point and that there’s a quote that says, you know, what kind of what got you?00:21:30 Speaker 2Here won’t get you there.00:21:33 Speaker 2And recognizing and and.00:21:34 Speaker 2Think it’s again saying thank you. Thank you for protecting me.00:21:38 Speaker 2You for keeping me safe.00:21:40 Speaker 2And it’s like I got me.00:21:44 Speaker 2I have my own back.00:21:47 Speaker 2And really, you know, when people ask me like.00:21:50 Speaker 2What do you?00:21:51 Speaker 2It’s like at the end of the day, I help people believe in them.00:21:54 Speaker 2Themselves and trust themselves.00:21:58 Speaker 2That it’s coming back to this like I’m safe no matter what.00:22:03 Speaker 2No matter what comments are under this video, no matter what someone says on a feedback form, I am safe. I am safe.00:22:11 Speaker 2Safe and helping people regulate again, regulate their nervous system and come back to that, to learning to insource that because I don’t think it’s a it’s a skill many people learned growing up and like you said, I always say visit visibility is vulnerability.00:22:29 Speaker 2So the more visible you are, the more vulnerable you are to people’s opinions, their beliefs, their thoughts, their.00:22:41 Speaker 2Mute.00:22:41 Speaker 2Their own ideas of what’s right or wrong.00:22:48 Speaker 2Pausing for dog barking.00:22:51 Speaker 2I was like, I hate.00:22:52 Speaker 2I was like, don’t look. I should have a little sign on the door.00:22:55 Speaker 2Can like see them coming.00:22:56 Speaker 2So, pausing, pausing for an edit moment here.00:23:02 Speaker 2But yeah, I think that.00:23:03 Speaker 2Journey are you done barking?00:23:08 Speaker 2Journey. You’re safe. Everything is safe.00:23:11 Speaker 2My puppies journey is OK, OK.00:23:16Nope.00:23:17 Speaker 2Journey.00:23:22 Speaker 2OK.00:23:23 Speaker 2Sorry about that.00:23:25 Speaker 2You know, life, life be lifey.00:23:27 Speaker 1I like the my equivalent is teenagers that want something from me.00:23:31 Speaker 1Get it? Yeah.00:23:34 Speaker 2Yeah. And so I think helping people learn to regulate their nervous system in source, that sense of safety, so that they can be of service. And I think the more I’ve really learned how to do that as a facilitator.00:23:49 Speaker 2I I really feel that I’m I’m able to serve at a higher level and I think when I started out I was really coming from a people pleaser perfectionist mindset of like this. Again, look good, get it right.00:24:04 Speaker 2I want everybody to get it.00:24:06 Speaker 2And and taking on.00:24:08 Speaker 2This giant responsibility of this I want everyone.00:24:12 Speaker 2Want everybody to get it?00:24:14 Speaker 1Yes, yeah, that I want everybody to get.00:24:17 Speaker 1I mean, there’s so many things in what you just said.00:24:20 Speaker 1I think pull on this last piece that I want everybody to get.00:24:24 Speaker 1Is a depth killer.00:24:27 Speaker 1It is a vulnerability.00:24:30 Speaker 1Killer and it is a possibility killer within a container because the the moment that as leaders, as facilitators, we go in with everybody, needs to love and resonate.00:24:44 Speaker 1And get everything that I say or else I am a failure.00:24:49 Speaker 1Know, because that’s usually where we go, right?00:24:50 Speaker 2Right.00:24:51 Speaker 1I am a failure and I’m not good enough.00:24:53 Speaker 1Whatever.00:24:54 Speaker 1What happens?00:24:56 Speaker 1We are not fully present.00:24:59 Speaker 1To what actually is showing up in the room, and aside from the fact that it’s OK if not everybody gets everything, I’ve been to plenty of workshops as a participant where I haven’t resonated with everything but.00:25:14 Speaker 1Still received.00:25:15 Speaker 1Value.00:25:16 Speaker 1So even that fact aside.00:25:19 Speaker 2Yeah.00:25:20 Speaker 1When we’re not present then, and we’re thinking everybody needs.00:25:25 Speaker 1Get it?00:25:27 Speaker 1Then when someone shows up with resistance, for example, I don’t like that idea.00:25:33 Speaker 1I.00:25:34 Speaker 1You know that doesn’t work for me or whatever it is.00:25:37 Speaker 1Then we as facilitators, we’re not in our best selves.00:25:43 Speaker 1To hold space for that individual in that moment.00:25:49Yeah.00:25:49 Speaker 1And the thing that is unfortunate about that and that’s why I’m saying it’s like a killer of possibility, is usually when resistance comes up in the room, that’s when the deepest, greatest learning for that individual.00:26:03 Speaker 1Everybody else is possible, like the next breakthrough.00:26:06 Speaker 1A bigger breakthrough is right there. If the practitioner is willing to meet it and not be defensive and show up with an open heart to hold the space.00:26:18 Speaker 1For that.00:26:20 Speaker 2I think that that is just it’s the essence of what it means to be.00:26:26 Speaker 2I I call it emergent facilitation.00:26:30 Speaker 2Of can I be with what is emerging in the space versus being attached to the outcome that I think that they should or are supposed to get?00:26:39 Speaker 1How I think it needs to look.00:26:40 Speaker 2How it?00:26:41 Speaker 2Yeah, it’s supposed to look this way.00:26:43 Speaker 2Get attached to that.00:26:45 Speaker 2Everyone, everyone on this retreat’s gonna get along.00:26:48 Speaker 2Everyone’s gonna have a breakthrough. All these things. Then when people don’t get along.00:26:56 Speaker 2Or there’s resistance to an exercise.00:26:59 Speaker 2Then yeah, we can get really thrown off versus like my only job is to meet the moment and to be of service.00:27:08 Speaker 2And to be with what is coming up right now.00:27:13That’s.00:27:13 Speaker 2And how and how do we can I think about it as how do we resource ourselves as leaders and facilitators to show up and meet the moment. And a lot of people come to me and I’m sure come to use like I wanna map out my retreat.00:27:30 Speaker 2Or.00:27:31 Speaker 2Have an agenda.00:27:33 Speaker 2You know, and finding this sweet spot or this balance of, you know, having a framework having enough of.00:27:42 Speaker 2A container to hold the journey.00:27:46 Speaker 2While also being able to meet people where they’re at and and.00:27:54Meet.00:27:55 Speaker 2What is arising for people without being like we have to go to the next thing because at 2:00?00:28:01 Speaker 2This.00:28:02 Speaker 1Exactly. Exactly.00:28:03 Speaker 2Right. And how to find that balance as facilitators? I think that I I have a lot of conversations with people about that with that sweet spot looks like because some people really want an agenda.00:28:15 Speaker 2I personally I could like.00:28:17 Speaker 2Lead things without an agenda.00:28:19 Speaker 2I create an agenda for other people.00:28:21 Speaker 2But then.00:28:21 Speaker 2Like but there’s so much magic that happens when there’s spaciousness for.00:28:28 Speaker 2All of the.00:28:29 Speaker 2In between moments, as it were, you know.00:28:31 Speaker 1It’s it’s so true.00:28:33 Speaker 1I mean both.00:28:35 Speaker 1As.00:28:35 Speaker 1Virgo. I like to have a plan.00:28:39 Speaker 1And at the same time, number one, you’re already speaking to this. Less is.00:28:45 Speaker 1I always tell people when they’re I’m helping them develop curriculum. I say it over less is more.00:28:53 Speaker 1Is more, less is more.00:28:56 Speaker 1You want to just save so much time for sharing, for coaching, for letting like you’re saying what wants to emerge emerge and I think.00:29:10 Speaker 1One of the there’s so many beliefs that go into being a masterful facilitator and one of the beliefs that I think helps with less is more and creating more space in addition to what we were just talking.00:29:25 Speaker 1Not to be scared of what comes up is to remember that.00:29:30 Speaker 1That.00:29:31 Speaker 1The power of a group program or a group retreat, or, you know, a group workshop.00:29:41 Speaker 1Is mainly in the.00:29:46 Speaker 1So so often facilitators forget this or don’t know this.00:29:52 Speaker 1Think I’m the most important person in the room or my curriculum is the most important element in the room, or the teaching is the most important and those are very important.00:30:04 Speaker 1But when we when we come to our groups with that belief, we’re not leveraging.00:30:10 Speaker 1The most incredible part of the group, which is the group the wisdom in the group, the vulnerability in the group.00:30:17 Speaker 1What’s gonna emerge from the group?00:30:20 Speaker 1The energy the connections among peers, all of that.00:30:24 Speaker 1When we remember that, I think it becomes a little bit easier to to let.00:30:30 Speaker 1No matter how much we’ve developed it, and I still like to develop curriculum a lot, but to let it take a little bit more of a backseat to Createspace.00:30:38 Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. And I I’m just getting back from leading a six day retreat down in Baja and.00:30:46 Speaker 2This retreat had the most space that I’ve ever had at any retreat. And you know, there’s a story in my head of facilitator. Like, I’m not doing enough ’cause. I’m like, in the pool floating on a Unicorn, like having the time of my life and.00:31:03 Speaker 2I’m like, am I this like, should I be doing more?00:31:06 Speaker 2Right. And I went through the feedback forms this week and they’re like, I loved how spacious it was.00:31:16 Speaker 2And most of the feedback forms I’ve gotten in the past have been like I would like more space, more free time, more more time to integrate, more in a beautiful place.00:31:29 Speaker 2Can take walks.00:31:30 Speaker 2And really like it, it makes it.00:31:35 Speaker 2The the group is where the magic happens and it’s allowing them to connect one on.00:31:41 Speaker 2Connect in small groups to really create their own experience and ultimately my job as the facilitator is to create the container for that to happen.00:31:53 Speaker 2So I think it’s really important on the front end of like what are we here for?00:31:57 Speaker 2Is this?00:31:57 Speaker 2And you know, we get curveballs.00:32:00 Speaker 2Like I there was an ice storm, the plane door flew.00:32:04 Speaker 2Like there was four people.00:32:07 Speaker 2That came a day late.00:32:11 Speaker 1It happened and.00:32:11 Speaker 2So you know, how do I navigate that?00:32:14 Speaker 2Do I?00:32:15 Speaker 2How do I again meet this moment and still build?00:32:21 Speaker 2Intentional container for transformation on the front end so that there can be this dance of spaciousness.00:32:30 Speaker 2Value in the content and finding finding the sweet spot. And that’s I think that the magic of again having I’ve found like just enough of a plan without too much. And I always say subject to change like.00:32:44 Speaker 1Right. Always subject to change.00:32:46 Speaker 1And I’m totally chuckling and cracking up at myself as you’re talking right now, because you were talking about like being in the pool and the spaciousness in between sessions. And the reason why I’m cracking up.00:33:00 Speaker 1Is because this is.00:33:01 Speaker 1This is so your brilliance of like the the having fun and the like. The in between sessions with the space. What I was talking about space. That’s not what I was talking about because I’m I’m a workhorse.00:33:15 Speaker 1I make like we’re training, you know.00:33:19 Speaker 1We don’t get much leisure in between, but there’s a lot of spaciousness.00:33:24Yes.00:33:25 Speaker 1Within the sessions for processing and sharing and getting coached and all of that. So anyway I’m just cracking.00:33:32 Speaker 1Both are so legit. Your your way and my way and it was making me think I need to lay on some more Unicorn floats a little bit more during retreats.00:33:43 Speaker 2Yeah. And it’s it’s just so funny.00:33:46 Speaker 2It’s it can’t.00:33:48 Speaker 2It’s really uncomfortable. ’cause. It’s like, oh, I have to be doing more.00:33:50Pardon.00:33:54 Speaker 2And people kept coming up to me, and they’re like, I’m having the time of my life.00:33:58 Speaker 2I’m like.00:34:00 Speaker 2Like I’m just hanging out here and I said to somebody ’cause they were talking about. I work with a lot of people who maybe.00:34:07 Speaker 2One coach is and they want to do group coaching and I I talk about like the magic of the group and who you curate and who’s in the room and who your audience is.00:34:18 Speaker 2I said.00:34:19 Speaker 2I mean like I know I’m pretty great, but imagine if you were just to come to Baja and hang out with just me for six days
